[Building Sakai] Moodle export/import suitability for Sakai 3

Thu Sep 17 10:37:35 PDT 2009

Lance

You are answering my question on primary use-cases. It seems you are  
looking at export/import as a mechanism for migration from Sakai 2 to  
Sakai 3. The issue is similar to moving from Sakai to Bb or Moodle and  
vice versa (except that we control both ends of the transfer). I would  
hazard that not all information in the course needs to transfer (or  
could transfer) because the implicit models in the systems at each end  
are different.

So an important part of the task is to determine what aspects of the  
information in the originating system need to transfer to the target  
system.

Sakai2 has a site which has members, tools, and content
Sakai 3 has content, groups and 'tool fragments' or widgets on pages  
that comprise sites. Groups can be associated with sites (but don't  
need to be), content can be associated with sites (but doesn't need to  
be).

In general, in this model, groups and content are not too worrisome  
for 2 -> 3 because the 3 model easily encompasses the 2 model. But for  
tools -> multiple tool fragments on pages, as you go from 2 to 3,  
there may need to be manual intervention (e.g. I import my course that  
had the Forums tool in Sakai 2. The tool does not appear immediately  
in 3, but discussion threads and fora are available on a pick-list as  
the instructor builds the new course pages.

Another, line of thinking would be to say that there are 3 course-by- 
course migration scenarios:
1. takes the output of the Sakai 2 course and only makes that  
available in widget pick lists for page authoring in the new Sakai 3  
installation
2. assumes some general model of a course site in Sakai 2 (e.g.  
resources + discussion + gradebook) and a transform is defined to a  
site template in Sakai 3 such that standard sites map to standard  
sites in a new format. If this model is applied to a non-standard site  
at either end, information may be lost
3. takes the full model of the Sakai 2 site, creates a tool-per-page  
facsimile in Sakai 3 and transfers the data. It is assumed that the  
transferred site will develop over time to take advantage of the new  
Sakai features, but initially it will look the same as before.

All of that said, I think the other export/import scenarios suggested  
mean we should not ignore IMS CP or CC. If we can transfer a lot more  
information with a special solution, that may justify a custom  
development, but if practicalities mean that data will be lost anyway,  
there will be advantages in having an IMS CC export.

John

On 17 Sep 2009, at 16:18, Speelmon, Lance Day wrote:

> Mark,
>
> That was the conclusion I was reaching as well, but I did not want  
> to be the first person to say it.  :)  I agree that their course  
> backup format looks way too specific to the Moodle data model.   
> While they do have a more reasonable format for test and quiz  
> questions, that does not go very far towards helping us with a  
> complete transition (i.e. export from Sakai 2, import to Sakai 3).  http://docs.moodle.org/en/Moodle_XML
>
> *(Thinking out loud warning)* - If we chose to go down the IMS-CP or  
> IMS-CC path, would we not be looking at a serious profile (i.e.  
> deviation) from the standards?  And if the deviation is extensive,  
> then are they a good starting point?  I have no strong opinion on  
> the matter and would like to hear what you and others think.   
> Thanks, L
>
>
> Lance Speelmon
> Scholarly Technologist
>
> On Sep 16, 2009, at 5:15 PM, <markjnorton at earthlink.net> <markjnorton at earthlink.net 
> > wrote:
>
>> I had a look at the manifest file (moodle.xml).
>>
>> It seems to me that a great deal of this information is highly  
>> specific to Moodle.  Half of it relates to authorization.  The  
>> Gradebook stuff will greatly depend on what gets implemented in  
>> Sakai3, which I assume will be heavily based on the Gradebook2 work  
>> recently done by UCD.  The module definitions are, again, highly  
>> Moodle specific.
>>
>> I've seen similar files for Blackboard and WebCT.  They are not  
>> intended to be an interchage format.  Rather, they are a backup and  
>> restore mechanism.
>>
>> It might be better to work with Moodle to agree on an interchange  
>> model based on IMS-CP, perhaps drawing on some of the recent IMS-CC  
>> work.  Bastardizing their internal format will do neither of us any  
>> good, IMO.
>>
>> - Mark
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "Speelmon, Lance Day"
>> Sent: Sep 16, 2009 4:35 PM
>> To: sakai-dev List
>> Subject: Re: [Building Sakai] Moodle export/import suitability for  
>> Sakai 3
>>
>> I could use a second pair of eyes on the Moodle backup format.  I  
>> managed to get the latest build of Moodle up and running and then  
>> created a sample backup zip file.  We are trying to determine  
>> suitability of their format as an export/import format for Sakai  
>> 3.  Grab the sample below and provide any feedback you have on the  
>> wiki page.  Thanks, L
>>
>> http://confluence.sakaiproject.org//x/ERLtAw
>>
>>
>> Lance Speelmon
>> Scholarly Technologist
>>
>> On Aug 17, 2009, at 4:53 PM, Speelmon, Lance Day wrote:
>>
>>> As we prepare to start working on a Sakai 2 -> Sakai 3 migration  
>>> effort, I would like to help organize community contributions.   
>>> There are a number of roles and skills that need to be filled and  
>>> your participation would be highly valued.
>>>
>>> What can be done immediately:
>>>
>>> 1) Collaborate on defining the migration project plan.
>>> 2) Investigate LTI as an underlying mechanism for exposing Sakai 2  
>>> tools within the Saki 3 portal.
>>> 3) Investigate Moodle's export/import architecture and file formats.
>>> 4) Develop a Sakai 2 Resources (i.e. ContentHosting) to Sakai 3  
>>> JCR data conversion.
>>>
>>> If any of these tasks sound interesting or you have other ideas  
>>> you would like to share, please use the wiki space below.  Please  
>>> take the time to declare your area of interest on the Contributors  
>>> page.
>>>
>>> http://confluence.sakaiproject.org/display/KERNDOC/Migration
>>>
>>> Thanks!  L
>>>
>>>
>>> Lance Speelmon
>>> Scholarly Technologist
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sakai-dev mailing list
>>> sakai-dev at collab.sakaiproject.org
>>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/sakai-dev
>>>
>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to sakai-dev-unsubscribe at collab.sakaiproject.org 
>>>  with a subject of "unsubscribe"
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sakai-dev mailing list
> sakai-dev at collab.sakaiproject.org
> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/sakai-dev
>
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to sakai-dev-unsubscribe at collab.sakaiproject.org 
>  with a subject of "unsubscribe"