[Using Sakai] WebDAV & Sakai

Alex Ballesté alexandre.balleste at udl.cat
Mon Feb 16 03:20:09 PST 2015


Some time ago I tried to figure out what was happening with windows. I'm 
not sure what was my conclusion but I remember errors on windows when 
webDAV was behind https servers and worked on http. Don't get it as a 
solid clue because I really don't remember the results. Just I wanted to 
add a point on what Daniel says.

Alex.



El 16/02/15 a les 12:14, Daniel Merino ha escrit:
> I'm sorry for being so late into this discussion about WebDAV. I just 
> want to give some information that could be useful for others.
>
> -Even with Drag&Drop available and even if they must use WebDAV as 
> simple FTP with Cyberduck, our users are big enthusiasts of WebDAV. At 
> least while Drag&Drop specification doesn't include downloads of files 
> and folders.
>
> -It's difficult to say where is located the failure when WebDAV fails, 
> but I think that the best option is trying to connect to Longsight's 
> 10.4 QA server. Latest WebDAV is located there and, for example, I 
> cannot use WebDAV as a remote folder from Windows 7 in our 2.9.2 
> server but it works fine when I connect to https://qa10.longsight.com/ 
> . Besides, Sam Ottenhoff commited to take a look on issues there.
>
> -There is a software to test WebDAV connections, 
> (https://github.com/tolsen/litmus) but I found that our 2.9.2 passed 
> the tests even not working on Windows 7. I don't know if there is a 
> better option out there to test WebDAV, but I would love to hear of it.
>
> -We also found a propietary software (http://www.webdrive.com/) that 
> worked fine with our 2.9.2 WebDAV, allowing to use it as a system's 
> remote folder like Marshall demands. If you don't mind to pay, maybe 
> this could be a solution in a short term.
>
> Hope it helps.
> Best regards.
>
> El 15/02/15 a las 23:20, Marshall Feldman escribió:
>> Laura is exactly right, although her comments point to a long-term 
>> solution but I'm hoping to resolve this in the next week or two.
>>
>> Universities are fond of saying their faculties do teaching, 
>> research, and service and that the three functions all contribute to 
>> each other. But although not entirely, Sakai and other LMS's tend to 
>> silo not only the three functions but within the teaching function 
>> courses from each other and within individual courses separate 
>> activities from each other. For example, if for my research I am 
>> reading an article on my iPad and think, "Say, this would be a great 
>> supplemental reading for both the research methods course and the 
>> theory course I'm teaching this semester," how many steps must one go 
>> through to share the article this way? It should be as easy as one 
>> step: "Share with xxxx: Research Methods and yyyy: Theory for 
>> Practitioners." But with Sakai and other LMS's today, we're talking a 
>> dozen steps at least. And this is about as simple an example as one 
>> can imagine.
>>
>>
>> On 2/15/15 4:23 PM, Laura Gekeler wrote:
>>> Well now you've gone and done it Marshall... all this WebDAV stuff 
>>> aside, what we're really pointing out here is that we believe file 
>>> system access to files in a Sakai course site repository should be 
>>> accessible outside of Sakai, isn't that it?  We'd like to use end 
>>> points and sharing from many different places, including:
>>>
>>>   * mounted and behaving like a native part of the OS file system.
>>>   * using 3rd party tools like Cyberduck
>>>   * and inside Sakai too, we should be able to copy or link to a
>>>     Sakai file in another course site, if we want.
>>>   * How about from inside an ePortfolio system, so students can
>>>     choose the same file they submitted for an assignment, as part
>>>     of a portfolio they're building?
>>>   * What about learning analytics? At some point we're going to need
>>>     to search files from their linked endpoints (or otherwise
>>>     traceable copies) in our analytics data warehouse in order to do
>>>     text mining of assignments in the spring of 2015, of sophomores,
>>>     which received A's ....
>>>
>>>
>>> WebDAV isn't the solution (interim maybe), but something like WebDAV 
>>> expresses the requirements for the beginning of a solution. Such a 
>>> solution will be at the core of a learning ecosystem.
>>>
>>> IMO
>>> Laura
>>>
>>>
>>> Laura Gekeler
>>> LMS Administrator //Concurrent Instructor
>>> Teaching and Learning Technologies
>>> University of Notre Dame
>>> P:(1) 574-631-2402
>>>
>>>
>>> On 15 February 2015 at 16:08, Marshall Feldman <marsh at uri.edu 
>>> <mailto:marsh at uri.edu>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     Chuck,
>>>
>>>     I understand your point. For years Microsoft claimed to work
>>>     with WebDAV, but Microsoft's implementation was notoriously buggy.
>>>
>>>     OTOH, Cyberduck is primarily a file transfer program that can
>>>     use any of several protocols, WebDAV being one of them. WebDAV,
>>>     OTOH, is a way of using files on a web server as part of a
>>>     distributed file system. Since in any file system one can move
>>>     files, Cyberduck may do a very good job with this aspect of
>>>     WebDAV on Sakai. But just because it can use this facet of
>>>     WebDAV successfully does not mean Sakai's implementation is
>>>     complete or without bugs.
>>>
>>>     So as an end user, I'm still at this point caught between
>>>     several parties pointing fingers. My local support person claims
>>>     that Sakai doesn't really support WebDAV's distributed file
>>>     system feature because Sakai keeps its files on varying machines
>>>     in a cluster. Apple claims its OS works with WebDAV, and I've
>>>     used it successfully with other WebDAV servers. So this also
>>>     points to Sakai as the culprit. Some of the responses to my
>>>     original query have implied that our local configuration of
>>>     Sakai is at fault. Your reply implies that Sakai's
>>>     implementation of WebDAV works, but Cyberduck functionality is
>>>     not proof, as I said.
>>>
>>>     So, I'll try a third rephrase of my question. I am concerned
>>>     about Sakai providing "fully functional" WebDAV, to any
>>>     operating system or app anywhere. By "fully functional" I am
>>>     including the distributed file system aspect. By "app," I'm
>>>     allowing for a more comprehensive app than Cyberduck, one that
>>>     would actually make the local operating system see the WebDAV
>>>     server as a mounted volume, thereby working around any bugs in
>>>     the native WebDAV implementation. (For example, a company called
>>>     OpenText
>>>     <http://connectivity.opentext.com/products/network-file-system.aspx>
>>>     sells a product that lets PC's share distributed files using
>>>     NFS. It effectively adds this feature to Windows' native file
>>>     system access.) So now the question is, "Can Sakai work as a
>>>     fully functional WebDAV server with any operating system
>>>     anywhere, whether through the operating system's native WebDAV
>>>     implementation or through a third-party add-on?" Or more
>>>     specifically, "Can Sakai provide distributed file system access
>>>     through WebDAV to any operating system whatsoever, whether or
>>>     not a special app provides this capability, so that files on
>>>     Sakai are readable and writable through the native file system's
>>>     built-in file access capabilities?" In other words, is the
>>>     distributed file system aspect of WebDAV successfully
>>>     implemented in Sakai at all?
>>>
>>>         Marsh
>>>
>>>     On 2/15/15 3:01 PM, Charles Severance wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     On Feb 15, 2015, at 1:21 PM, Marshall Feldman <marsh at uri.edu
>>>>     <mailto:marsh at uri.edu>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>     So, to rephrase my original question, does Sakai support
>>>>>     WebDAV client-server mounting at the level of OS X or Windows?
>>>>>     In other words, does Sakai support genuine WebDAV as
>>>>>     implemented on the two most common operating systems currently
>>>>>     used in academia?
>>>>
>>>>     Marshall - Sakai has a WebDav that we are confident works with
>>>>     Cyberduck and *may* work with other operating systems.  There
>>>>     is no "formal commitment" that we will do "whatever" the OS/X
>>>>     or Windows operating system happens to do.
>>>>
>>>>     Having worked in standards and interoperability for a long time
>>>>     - just saying "we are genuine WebDav" is not at all a guarantee
>>>>     of interoperability.
>>>>
>>>>     Our WebDav code is based on an WebDav from 2004 and we have
>>>>     made a few improvements  since then. The operating systems feel
>>>>     no compunction to be careful in using WebDav to maintain
>>>>     interoperability with anything other than their own
>>>>     implementations.  CyberDuck is more interoperable because since
>>>>     they are neither Microsoft nor Apple - they need to be a little
>>>>     more careful how they implement WebDav so as to remain
>>>>     interoperable.
>>>>
>>>>     Since our webdav is so old, it would take a lot of resources to
>>>>     try to find and fix all the issues to guarantee it works with
>>>>     Mac/Windows.
>>>>
>>>>     If we had a lot of resources, we might start over with a more
>>>>     modern WebDav protocol implementation like this:
>>>>
>>>>     http://milton.io/
>>>>
>>>>     So for now, we can use WebDav if it works but we don't consider
>>>>     "WebDav not working on Windows" a "bug".  We need to work on
>>>>     things like getting rid of iframes :)  Of course if someone
>>>>     felt strongly about fixing it - they could take the initiative
>>>>     and build us a new WebDav :)
>>>>
>>>>     /Chuck
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
> -- 
> Daniel Merino Echeverría
> daniel.merino at unavarra.es
> Gestor de E-learning - Centro Superior de Innovación Educativa.
> Tfno: 948-168489 - Universidad Pública de Navarra.
> --
> Experiencia no es el numero de cosas que se han visto, sino el número 
> de cosas que se han reflexionado. (Jose María de Pereda)
>
>
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-- 
Alexandre Ballesté Crevillén  alexandre.balleste at udl.cat
=====================
Universitat de Lleida
Àrea de sistemes d'Informació i Comunicacions
Analista/Programador

University of Lleida
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Analyst / Programmer

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