[Using Sakai] WebDAV & Sakai

Daniel Merino daniel.merino at unavarra.es
Mon Feb 16 03:14:00 PST 2015


I'm sorry for being so late into this discussion about WebDAV. I just 
want to give some information that could be useful for others.

-Even with Drag&Drop available and even if they must use WebDAV as 
simple FTP with Cyberduck, our users are big enthusiasts of WebDAV. At 
least while Drag&Drop specification doesn't include downloads of files 
and folders.

-It's difficult to say where is located the failure when WebDAV fails, 
but I think that the best option is trying to connect to Longsight's 
10.4 QA server. Latest WebDAV is located there and, for example, I 
cannot use WebDAV as a remote folder from Windows 7 in our 2.9.2 server 
but it works fine when I connect to https://qa10.longsight.com/ . 
Besides, Sam Ottenhoff commited to take a look on issues there.

-There is a software to test WebDAV connections, 
(https://github.com/tolsen/litmus) but I found that our 2.9.2 passed the 
tests even not working on Windows 7. I don't know if there is a better 
option out there to test WebDAV, but I would love to hear of it.

-We also found a propietary software (http://www.webdrive.com/) that 
worked fine with our 2.9.2 WebDAV, allowing to use it as a system's 
remote folder like Marshall demands. If you don't mind to pay, maybe 
this could be a solution in a short term.

Hope it helps.
Best regards.

El 15/02/15 a las 23:20, Marshall Feldman escribió:
> Laura is exactly right, although her comments point to a long-term 
> solution but I'm hoping to resolve this in the next week or two.
>
> Universities are fond of saying their faculties do teaching, research, 
> and service and that the three functions all contribute to each other. 
> But although not entirely, Sakai and other LMS's tend to silo not only 
> the three functions but within the teaching function courses from each 
> other and within individual courses separate activities from each 
> other. For example, if for my research I am reading an article on my 
> iPad and think, "Say, this would be a great supplemental reading for 
> both the research methods course and the theory course I'm teaching 
> this semester," how many steps must one go through to share the 
> article this way? It should be as easy as one step: "Share with xxxx: 
> Research Methods and yyyy: Theory for Practitioners." But with Sakai 
> and other LMS's today, we're talking a dozen steps at least. And this 
> is about as simple an example as one can imagine.
>
>
> On 2/15/15 4:23 PM, Laura Gekeler wrote:
>> Well now you've gone and done it Marshall... all this WebDAV stuff 
>> aside, what we're really pointing out here is that we believe file 
>> system access to files in a Sakai course site repository should be 
>> accessible outside of Sakai, isn't that it?  We'd like to use end 
>> points and sharing from many different places, including:
>>
>>   * mounted and behaving like a native part of the OS file system.
>>   * using 3rd party tools like Cyberduck
>>   * and inside Sakai too, we should be able to copy or link to a
>>     Sakai file in another course site, if we want.
>>   * How about from inside an ePortfolio system, so students can
>>     choose the same file they submitted for an assignment, as part of
>>     a portfolio they're building?
>>   * What about learning analytics? At some point we're going to need
>>     to search files from their linked endpoints (or otherwise
>>     traceable copies) in our analytics data warehouse in order to do
>>     text mining of assignments in the spring of 2015, of sophomores,
>>     which received A's ....
>>
>>
>> WebDAV isn't the solution (interim maybe), but something like WebDAV 
>> expresses the requirements for the beginning of a solution. Such a 
>> solution will be at the core of a learning ecosystem.
>>
>> IMO
>> Laura
>>
>>
>> Laura Gekeler
>> LMS Administrator //Concurrent Instructor
>> Teaching and Learning Technologies
>> University of Notre Dame
>> P:(1) 574-631-2402
>>
>>
>> On 15 February 2015 at 16:08, Marshall Feldman <marsh at uri.edu 
>> <mailto:marsh at uri.edu>> wrote:
>>
>>     Chuck,
>>
>>     I understand your point. For years Microsoft claimed to work with
>>     WebDAV, but Microsoft's implementation was notoriously buggy.
>>
>>     OTOH, Cyberduck is primarily a file transfer program that can use
>>     any of several protocols, WebDAV being one of them. WebDAV, OTOH,
>>     is a way of using files on a web server as part of a distributed
>>     file system. Since in any file system one can move files,
>>     Cyberduck may do a very good job with this aspect of WebDAV on
>>     Sakai. But just because it can use this facet of WebDAV
>>     successfully does not mean Sakai's implementation is complete or
>>     without bugs.
>>
>>     So as an end user, I'm still at this point caught between several
>>     parties pointing fingers. My local support person claims that
>>     Sakai doesn't really support WebDAV's distributed file system
>>     feature because Sakai keeps its files on varying machines in a
>>     cluster. Apple claims its OS works with WebDAV, and I've used it
>>     successfully with other WebDAV servers. So this also points to
>>     Sakai as the culprit. Some of the responses to my original query
>>     have implied that our local configuration of Sakai is at fault.
>>     Your reply implies that Sakai's implementation of WebDAV works,
>>     but Cyberduck functionality is not proof, as I said.
>>
>>     So, I'll try a third rephrase of my question. I am concerned
>>     about Sakai providing "fully functional" WebDAV, to any operating
>>     system or app anywhere. By "fully functional" I am including the
>>     distributed file system aspect. By "app," I'm allowing for a more
>>     comprehensive app than Cyberduck, one that would actually make
>>     the local operating system see the WebDAV server as a mounted
>>     volume, thereby working around any bugs in the native WebDAV
>>     implementation. (For example, a company called OpenText
>>     <http://connectivity.opentext.com/products/network-file-system.aspx>
>>     sells a product that lets PC's share distributed files using NFS.
>>     It effectively adds this feature to Windows' native file system
>>     access.) So now the question is, "Can Sakai work as a fully
>>     functional WebDAV server with any operating system anywhere,
>>     whether through the operating system's native WebDAV
>>     implementation or through a third-party add-on?" Or more
>>     specifically, "Can Sakai provide distributed file system access
>>     through WebDAV to any operating system whatsoever, whether or not
>>     a special app provides this capability, so that files on Sakai
>>     are readable and writable through the native file system's
>>     built-in file access capabilities?" In other words, is the
>>     distributed file system aspect of WebDAV successfully implemented
>>     in Sakai at all?
>>
>>         Marsh
>>
>>     On 2/15/15 3:01 PM, Charles Severance wrote:
>>>
>>>     On Feb 15, 2015, at 1:21 PM, Marshall Feldman <marsh at uri.edu
>>>     <mailto:marsh at uri.edu>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>     So, to rephrase my original question, does Sakai support WebDAV
>>>>     client-server mounting at the level of OS X or Windows? In
>>>>     other words, does Sakai support genuine WebDAV as implemented
>>>>     on the two most common operating systems currently used in
>>>>     academia?
>>>
>>>     Marshall - Sakai has a WebDav that we are confident works with
>>>     Cyberduck and *may* work with other operating systems.  There is
>>>     no "formal commitment" that we will do "whatever" the OS/X or
>>>     Windows operating system happens to do.
>>>
>>>     Having worked in standards and interoperability for a long time
>>>     - just saying "we are genuine WebDav" is not at all a guarantee
>>>     of interoperability.
>>>
>>>     Our WebDav code is based on an WebDav from 2004 and we have made
>>>     a few improvements  since then. The operating systems feel no
>>>     compunction to be careful in using WebDav to maintain
>>>     interoperability with anything other than their own
>>>     implementations. CyberDuck is more interoperable because since
>>>     they are neither Microsoft nor Apple - they need to be a little
>>>     more careful how they implement WebDav so as to remain
>>>     interoperable.
>>>
>>>     Since our webdav is so old, it would take a lot of resources to
>>>     try to find and fix all the issues to guarantee it works with
>>>     Mac/Windows.
>>>
>>>     If we had a lot of resources, we might start over with a more
>>>     modern WebDav protocol implementation like this:
>>>
>>>     http://milton.io/
>>>
>>>     So for now, we can use WebDav if it works but we don't consider
>>>     "WebDav not working on Windows" a "bug".  We need to work on
>>>     things like getting rid of iframes :)  Of course if someone felt
>>>     strongly about fixing it - they could take the initiative and
>>>     build us a new WebDav :)
>>>
>>>     /Chuck
>>
>>
>
>
>
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-- 
Daniel Merino Echeverría
daniel.merino at unavarra.es
Gestor de E-learning - Centro Superior de Innovación Educativa.
Tfno: 948-168489 - Universidad Pública de Navarra.
--
Experiencia no es el numero de cosas que se han visto, sino el número de 
cosas que se han reflexionado. (Jose María de Pereda)
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