[Building Sakai] Scoring Agent API for review

Tue Dec 17 11:14:44 PST 2013

Thanks John and Ramesh. That makes sense to me.

Cheers,
Neal

> Ramesh Sabetiashraf <mailto:ramesh.sabeti at reazon.com>
> December 16, 2013 at 5:32 PM
> A couple of things to add to John's insights.
>
> iRubric does provide LTI integration.  But, there's a little limitation on
> the Sakai side that only allows LTI integration with a single gradebook item
> (as of six months ago).
>
> Also, the user experience with LTI is not as natural as our deep
> integration.  For one, an iRubric LTI would sit outside of Gradebook or
> Assignment tools as a separate tool.  Users want to stay in their tool of
> choice (gradebook or assignments) that they usually use for grading.  LTI is
> also a bit harder for the end-user to setup.
>
> HTH,
>
> Ramesh.
>
>
> Ramesh Sabetiashraf
> Reazon Systems, Inc.
>
> Mailing: 5319 University Drive #111, Irvine, CA  92612
> Headquarters: 1300 S. Bristol St., Santa Ana, CA 92704
> Phone: 949-222-2266 x801. Fax: 949-860-2408
>
> Creator of RCampus and iRubric
> Recipient of TechAmerica High-Tech Innovation Awards
>
> ePortfolio | LinkedIn
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sakai-dev-bounces at collab.sakaiproject.org
> [mailto:sakai-dev-bounces at collab.sakaiproject.org] On Behalf Of John Bush
> Sent: Friday, December 6, 2013 10:21 AM
> To: Neal Caidin
> Cc: Sakai-Dev
> Subject: Re: [Building Sakai] Scoring Agent API for review
>
> It certainly a totally valid approach.  Especially if you don't care about
> your LTI tool being portable from one LMS to another.  Because then you can
> call sakai webservices all over the place and do really rich integrations.
> I know this isn't what LTI was intended for, but it totally viable approach
> for simply building Sakai tools when you want to be free from sakai
> technology choices or deployment schedule etc.
>
> On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 11:01 AM, Neal Caidin<neal.caidin at apereo.org>  wrote:
>> It will be interesting to see if the new Karuta Portfolio system,
>> which is emerging out of the Sakai Portfolio community and which is
>> based on LTI, can evolve into something that would work. Seems like
>> that depends on many factors, way too early to tell.
>>
>> Thanks for the info.
>>
>> --- Neal
>>
>>
>>
>> Neal Caidin
>> Sakai Community Coordinator
>> neal.caidin at apereo.org
>> Skype: nealkdin
>> Twitter: ncaidin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 6, 2013, at 10:38 AM, Matthew Jones<matthew at longsight.com>  wrote:
>>
>> Yea, that's essentially right, LTI generally puts more work on the
>> provider which they may or may not be willing to do.
>>
>> Also at the moment I'd LTI, even at 2.0, doesn't have a an extension
>> for handling this type of use case very well. The current LTI simple
>> outcomes alone can't handle everything this is going to need to do and
>> integrate as well as we'd like. Some type of integration with these
>> tools is what's really expected.
>>
>> So you would need to be able (in a site in the Sakai sense) have
>> gradebook, assignment and forums be able to be available to send their
>> items to the provider and make them gradable.  There likely could be
>> extension(s) created that could eventually implement this interface as
>> part of LTI 2.0 in the future, but I agree this is the best solution for
> the moment.
>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 1:13 AM, John Bush<jbush at anisakai.com>  wrote:
>>> More like practical constraints.  The reality is there was already
>>> iRubric integration existing, albeit it was a set of patches.  LTI
>>> would require iRubric to make changes on their side.  That is not
>>> something they are interested in doing.  From what I understand the
>>> user experience is less than ideal as well, because folks would
>>> prefer a more integrated solution into the sakai tools, then treating
>>> it as a whole separate tool which is typically the LTI experience.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 7:54 AM, Neal Caidin<neal.caidin at apereo.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>> That's very interesting.
>>>>
>>>> I'm guessing you considered LTI , but feel this is a better
>>>> approach? Or there are technical constraints?
>>>>
>>>> Just curious.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Neal
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Neal Caidin
>>>> Sakai Community Coordinator
>>>> neal.caidin at apereo.org
>>>> Skype: nealkdin
>>>> Twitter: ncaidin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 26, 2013, at 3:37 PM, John Bush<jbush at anisakai.com>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Please check out:
>>>> https://crucible.sakaiproject.org/cru/SAKTRUNK-22#details
>>>>
>>>> https://jira.sakaiproject.org/browse/SAK-23717
>>>>
>>>> I believe this is low impact work to include in Sakai 10 as its a
>>>> brand new service that doesn't really touch anything else.
>>>>
>>>> In order to support integrations like iRubric or other use cases
>>>> like it. We want a core API that tools can bind to in order to
>>>> integrate into their user interfaces without relying on patches or
>>>> direct third party code. This api can then be implemented by third
>>>> party providers like iRubric or others and optionally included into
>>>> sakai builds, much like we do with the content review api and turnitin.
>>>>
>>>> The iRubric implementation of this API, can be found here:
>>>> https://source.sakaiproject.org/svn/msub/rsmart.com/sakai/trunk/iru
>>>> bric
>>>>
>>>> mods to gradebook2 which rely on this service can be found here:
>>>> https://source.sakaiproject.org/contrib/rsmart/msub/gradebook2/trun
>>>> k
>>>>
>>>> It would be nice for Sakai 10 to have this API included so that gb2
>>>> can merge in these changes, and we could start work in other places
>>>> (like Assignments) that wish to have iRubric integration included,
>>>> post Sakai 10 release. The end game here is that Sakai might have
>>>> "hooks" for iRubric integration without needing to include iRubric
>>>> code ootb and without relying on patches that have to be constantly
>>>> maintained and applied to multiple places in the codebase.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> John Bush
>>>> 602-490-0470
>>>>
>>>> ** This message is neither private nor confidential in fact the US
>>>> government is storing it in a warehouse located in Utah for future
>>>> data mining use cases should they arise. **
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> sakai-dev mailing list
>>>> sakai-dev at collab.sakaiproject.org
>>>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/sakai-dev
>>>>
>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to
>>>> sakai-dev-unsubscribe at collab.sakaiproject.org
>>>> with a subject of "unsubscribe"
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> John Bush
>>> 602-490-0470
>>>
>>> ** This message is neither private nor confidential in fact the US
>>> government is storing it in a warehouse located in Utah for future
>>> data mining use cases should they arise. **
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sakai-dev mailing list
>>> sakai-dev at collab.sakaiproject.org
>>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/sakai-dev
>>>
>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to
>>> sakai-dev-unsubscribe at collab.sakaiproject.org with a subject of
>>> "unsubscribe"
>
>
>
> --
> John Bush
> 602-490-0470
>
> ** This message is neither private nor confidential in fact the US
> government is storing it in a warehouse located in Utah for future data
> mining use cases should they arise. **
> _______________________________________________
> sakai-dev mailing list
> sakai-dev at collab.sakaiproject.org
> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/sakai-dev
>
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to sakai-dev-unsubscribe at collab.sakaiproject.org
> with a subject of "unsubscribe"
>
> John Bush <mailto:jbush at anisakai.com>
> December 6, 2013 at 1:20 PM
> It certainly a totally valid approach. Especially if you don't care
> about your LTI tool being portable from one LMS to another. Because
> then you can call sakai webservices all over the place and do really
> rich integrations. I know this isn't what LTI was intended for, but
> it totally viable approach for simply building Sakai tools when you
> want to be free from sakai technology choices or deployment schedule
> etc.
>
>
>
> Neal Caidin <mailto:neal.caidin at apereo.org>
> December 6, 2013 at 1:01 PM
> It will be interesting to see if the new Karuta Portfolio system, 
> which is emerging out of the Sakai Portfolio community and which is 
> based on LTI, can evolve into something that would work. Seems like 
> that depends on many factors, way too early to tell.
>
> Thanks for the info.
>
> --- Neal
>
>
>
> Neal Caidin
> Sakai Community Coordinator
> neal.caidin at apereo.org <mailto:neal.caidin at apereo.org>
> Skype: nealkdin
> Twitter: ncaidin
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Matthew Jones <mailto:matthew at longsight.com>
> December 6, 2013 at 10:38 AM
> Yea, that's essentially right, LTI generally puts more work on the 
> provider which they may or may not be willing to do.
>
> Also at the moment I'd LTI, even at 2.0, doesn't have a an extension 
> for handling this type of use case very well. The current LTI simple 
> outcomes alone can't handle everything this is going to need to do and 
> integrate as well as we'd like. Some type of integration with these 
> tools is what's really expected.
>
> So you would need to be able (in a site in the Sakai sense) have 
> gradebook, assignment and forums be able to be available to send their 
> items to the provider and make them gradable.  There likely could be 
> extension(s) created that could eventually implement this interface as 
> part of LTI 2.0 in the future, but I agree this is the best solution 
> for the moment.
>
>
>
>
> John Bush <mailto:jbush at anisakai.com>
> December 6, 2013 at 1:13 AM
> More like practical constraints. The reality is there was already
> iRubric integration existing, albeit it was a set of patches. LTI
> would require iRubric to make changes on their side. That is not
> something they are interested in doing. From what I understand the
> user experience is less than ideal as well, because folks would prefer
> a more integrated solution into the sakai tools, then treating it as a
> whole separate tool which is typically the LTI experience.
>
>
>

-- 
Neal Caidin
Sakai Community Coordinator
Apereo Foundation
neal.caidin at apereo.org
Skype me! (but let me know in advance for the first interaction) - nealkdin

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