[Building Sakai] gradebook and gradebook2 iRubric integration

Wed Sep 26 19:28:01 PDT 2012

On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 5:50 PM, Jon Gorrono <jpgorrono at ucdavis.edu> wrote:
> I don't think this is crazy at all, and is just what I think we had in mind.
>
> One thing I wanted to add is that the BLTI version that was targetee for 2.8
> includes a mechanism for pushing and updating grades, so perhaps a ws
> callback would not be necessary. And, IIRC a grade is a number between
> 0 and 1 in the spec.

Right this is what I was alluding to. I don't know a lot about it, but
that was my understanding as well.

> WRT GB2, there are some basic UI components that Ramesh and crew introduced in
> their coding and those are good ones in general: a button for updating
> grades (via a 'pull' or request for a 'push') for one. And those bits
> are also relevant to any other tool supplying grades to the sakai
> gradebook (edu-services), so the thought was for GB2 to introduce a
> general mechanism for handling those things. And that mechanism would be
> (and in simpler cases, perhaps not) the BLTI launch mechanism...

So if there are things that are not GB2 specific and necessary outside
of basic lti, and are useful to other tools around grade exchange, I
think those things would want to live in edu-services right? We don't
want different things in assignments, assignments2, gradebook, gb2,
that handle these integrations a separate way, but more one
extension/interface/plugin that all tools could leverage.  I would
think edu-services would be the logical place for such a thing.

>
> On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 10:31 PM, John Bush <jbush at rsmart.com> wrote:
>> So here's are my crazy thoughts.  What about a basic lti launch from
>> these tools.  Which would mean the sakai tools would need to support
>> building that launch (maybe through some interface to abstract the
>> basic lti bits or maybe not) and then irubric would have to become a
>> basic lti producer.  Then irubric calls back to a web service to post
>> grades.  I think lti in sakai has some support for this already yes ?
>> or it could be something not lti, but reusable and generic in some
>> fashion.
>>
>> Grade/outcome push is a really common use case, which we (rsmart) are
>> totally hacking up by reverse engineering gb2 rest calls that weren't
>> designed to be used that way, but are there and work.  Something a
>> little more elegant would be nice, maybe such an effort here could
>> help drive that forward.
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 8:07 AM, Ramesh Sabetiashraf
>> <ramesh.sabeti at reazon.com> wrote:
>>> Yes, the general steps are correct.
>>>
>>> I should've said "Sakai 2.7, 2.8, and 2.9".  As Thomas said, iRubric has a
>>> "tight integration" with GB, GB2, and AS2.  Hope the same level of
>>> integration can be achieved with the generic service.
>>>
>>> Ramesh
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: John Bush [mailto:jbush at rsmart.com]
>>> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:39 PM
>>> To: Ramesh Sabetiashraf
>>> Cc: Nate Angell; Sam Ottenhoff; sakai-dev; wagnermr at iupui.edu;
>>> jonrcook at indiana.edu; JonGorrono; KirkAlexander
>>> Subject: Re: [Building Sakai] gradebook and gradebook2 iRubric integration
>>>
>>> I wouldn't get so caught up in worrying about 2.7 installations.
>>> IMHO, folks on 2.7 really need to be moving forward, new capabilities are
>>> often forcing functions for making that happen.  Things can always be back
>>> ported when necessary as well.
>>>
>>> It would interesting to understand exactly what the touch points are to
>>> start thinking through what such an interface might need to support.  Its
>>> basically a launch into irubric, that has to send over some data into
>>> irubric, and then grade push back right ?
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 3:14 PM, Ramesh Sabetiashraf
>>> <ramesh.sabeti at reazon.com> wrote:
>>>> Our AS2 integration tapped into our previous integration with GB services.
>>>> We took the same approach for our GB2 integration.  So the bulk of the
>>>> code is centralized in GB services.
>>>>
>>>> I like Sam's approach, but is that a possibility for existing Sakai
>>>> versions (2.7+)?
>>>>
>>>> Ramesh Sabetiashraf
>>>> Reazon Systems, Inc.
>>>>
>>>> Mailing: 5319 University Drive #111, Irvine, CA  92612
>>>> Headquarters: 1300 S. Bristol St., Santa Ana, CA 92704
>>>> Phone: 949-222-2266 x801. Fax: 949-860-2408
>>>>
>>>> Creator of RCampus and iRubric
>>>> Recipient of TechAmerica High-Tech Innovation Awards
>>>>
>>>> ePortfolio | LinkedIn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: John Bush [mailto:jbush at rsmart.com]
>>>> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 10:58 AM
>>>> To: Nate Angell
>>>> Cc: Sam Ottenhoff; sakai-dev; wagnermr at iupui.edu;
>>>> jonrcook at indiana.edu; Ramesh Sabetiashraf; JonGorrono; KirkAlexander
>>>> Subject: Re: [Building Sakai] gradebook and gradebook2 iRubric
>>>> integration
>>>>
>>>> So how is irubric integrated into assignments2, is there no such
>>>> interface to build on there  Or was this done in a less than preferred way
>>> ?
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 8:09 AM, Nate Angell <nangell at rsmart.com> wrote:
>>>>> Thanks Sam, actual tangible steps contributors can take are extremely
>>>>> helpful.
>>>>>
>>>>> In this case, the motivated parties are doing the work, they are just
>>>>> looking for guidance.
>>>>>
>>>>> = nate
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 21, 2012, at 5:41 AM, Sam Ottenhoff <ottenhoff at longsight.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> It doesn't need to be perfect, but it does need to be acceptable to
>>>>> the community and done correctly.  Patches that will integrate
>>>>> iRubric directly with Sakai aren't going to fly for the community
>>>>> version of Sakai.  It needs to be done via a generic service for it to be
>>> acceptable.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regarding the question of who is likely to do the work: the motivated
>>>>> parties.  Here is how it worked with TurnItIn integration: 1) create
>>>>> a generic API for plagiarism detection called contentreview-service,
>>>>> 2) work with CLE Team to get patches for new service committed, 3)
>>>>> request a contrib space in Sakai SVN, 4) maintain an open-source
>>>>> integration layer in contrib,
>>>>> 5) write up some documentation on how others can build and deploy the
>>>>> integration.
>>>>>
>>>>> --Sam
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 10:40 PM, Nate Angell <nangell at rsmart.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That sounds like great advice Sam. Perhaps Ramesh and his team can
>>>>>> weigh in on how the work that they have already completed fits in
>>>>>> that ideal vision, and/or, how where this existing work needs to be
>>>>>> integrated so that we can move a step forward in the meantime. Let's
>>>>>> not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> = nate
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sep 20, 2012, at 7:24 PM, Sam Ottenhoff <ottenhoff at longsight.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There seems to be one decent way to integrate a proprietary service
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> Sakai: create a generic service that can be implemented by the vendor.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For plagiarism detection, Sakai has a contentreview-service.
>>>>>> TurnItIn is the primary implementation of that service.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So a rubric service would need to be created in Sakai that would
>>>>>> allow iRubric (or others) to the implement the generic service.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The generic service is in core Sakai.  The TurnItIn implementation
>>>>>> of the service is in the contrib part of SVN.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --Sam
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 9:07 PM, Nate Angell <nangell at rsmart.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Reazon has led some development in both Sakai CLE gradebook and
>>>>>>> gradebook2 to help integrate iRubric into both. As an outcome of
>>>>>>> that, there are patches necessary to both projects to enable
>>>> integration.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can you help guide Ramesh and his team into how to ensure this code
>>>>>>> can be a part of the community release to facilitate iRubric
>>>>>>> integration in all contexts?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I include the Jons, Kirk, and Margaret because they are listed as
>>>>>>> the "owners" of gradebook project in the Sakai wiki:
>>>>>>> https://confluence.sakaiproject.org/display/SG2X/Home
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Nate Angell
>>>>>>> Sakai Product Manager
>>>>>>> rSmart
>>>>>>> http://www.rsmart.com
>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/xolotl
>>>>>>> http://xolotl.org
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> sakai-dev mailing list
>>>>>>> sakai-dev at collab.sakaiproject.org
>>>>>>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/sakai-dev
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> John Bush
>>>> 602-490-0470
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> John Bush
>>> 602-490-0470
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> John Bush
>> 602-490-0470
>
>
>
> --
> Jon Gorrono
> PGP Key: 0x5434509D -
> http{pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x5434509D&op=index}
> GSWoT Introducer - {GSWoT:US75 5434509D Jon P. Gorrono <jpgorrono -
> www.gswot.org>}
> http{middleware.ucdavis.edu}

-- 
John Bush
602-490-0470