[Building Sakai] gradebook and gradebook2 iRubric integration

Wed Sep 26 17:50:16 PDT 2012

I don't think this is crazy at all, and is just what I think we had in mind.

One thing I wanted to add is that the BLTI version that was targetee for 2.8
includes a mechanism for pushing and updating grades, so perhaps a ws
callback would not be necessary. And, IIRC a grade is a number between
0 and 1 in the spec.

WRT GB2, there are some basic UI components that Ramesh and crew introduced in
their coding and those are good ones in general: a button for updating
grades (via a 'pull' or request for a 'push') for one. And those bits
are also relevant to any other tool supplying grades to the sakai
gradebook (edu-services), so the thought was for GB2 to introduce a
general mechanism for handling those things. And that mechanism would be
(and in simpler cases, perhaps not) the BLTI launch mechanism...

On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 10:31 PM, John Bush <jbush at rsmart.com> wrote:
> So here's are my crazy thoughts.  What about a basic lti launch from
> these tools.  Which would mean the sakai tools would need to support
> building that launch (maybe through some interface to abstract the
> basic lti bits or maybe not) and then irubric would have to become a
> basic lti producer.  Then irubric calls back to a web service to post
> grades.  I think lti in sakai has some support for this already yes ?
> or it could be something not lti, but reusable and generic in some
> fashion.
>
> Grade/outcome push is a really common use case, which we (rsmart) are
> totally hacking up by reverse engineering gb2 rest calls that weren't
> designed to be used that way, but are there and work.  Something a
> little more elegant would be nice, maybe such an effort here could
> help drive that forward.
>
> On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 8:07 AM, Ramesh Sabetiashraf
> <ramesh.sabeti at reazon.com> wrote:
>> Yes, the general steps are correct.
>>
>> I should've said "Sakai 2.7, 2.8, and 2.9".  As Thomas said, iRubric has a
>> "tight integration" with GB, GB2, and AS2.  Hope the same level of
>> integration can be achieved with the generic service.
>>
>> Ramesh
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: John Bush [mailto:jbush at rsmart.com]
>> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 9:39 PM
>> To: Ramesh Sabetiashraf
>> Cc: Nate Angell; Sam Ottenhoff; sakai-dev; wagnermr at iupui.edu;
>> jonrcook at indiana.edu; JonGorrono; KirkAlexander
>> Subject: Re: [Building Sakai] gradebook and gradebook2 iRubric integration
>>
>> I wouldn't get so caught up in worrying about 2.7 installations.
>> IMHO, folks on 2.7 really need to be moving forward, new capabilities are
>> often forcing functions for making that happen.  Things can always be back
>> ported when necessary as well.
>>
>> It would interesting to understand exactly what the touch points are to
>> start thinking through what such an interface might need to support.  Its
>> basically a launch into irubric, that has to send over some data into
>> irubric, and then grade push back right ?
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 3:14 PM, Ramesh Sabetiashraf
>> <ramesh.sabeti at reazon.com> wrote:
>>> Our AS2 integration tapped into our previous integration with GB services.
>>> We took the same approach for our GB2 integration.  So the bulk of the
>>> code is centralized in GB services.
>>>
>>> I like Sam's approach, but is that a possibility for existing Sakai
>>> versions (2.7+)?
>>>
>>> Ramesh Sabetiashraf
>>> Reazon Systems, Inc.
>>>
>>> Mailing: 5319 University Drive #111, Irvine, CA  92612
>>> Headquarters: 1300 S. Bristol St., Santa Ana, CA 92704
>>> Phone: 949-222-2266 x801. Fax: 949-860-2408
>>>
>>> Creator of RCampus and iRubric
>>> Recipient of TechAmerica High-Tech Innovation Awards
>>>
>>> ePortfolio | LinkedIn
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: John Bush [mailto:jbush at rsmart.com]
>>> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 10:58 AM
>>> To: Nate Angell
>>> Cc: Sam Ottenhoff; sakai-dev; wagnermr at iupui.edu;
>>> jonrcook at indiana.edu; Ramesh Sabetiashraf; JonGorrono; KirkAlexander
>>> Subject: Re: [Building Sakai] gradebook and gradebook2 iRubric
>>> integration
>>>
>>> So how is irubric integrated into assignments2, is there no such
>>> interface to build on there  Or was this done in a less than preferred way
>> ?
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 8:09 AM, Nate Angell <nangell at rsmart.com> wrote:
>>>> Thanks Sam, actual tangible steps contributors can take are extremely
>>>> helpful.
>>>>
>>>> In this case, the motivated parties are doing the work, they are just
>>>> looking for guidance.
>>>>
>>>> = nate
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 21, 2012, at 5:41 AM, Sam Ottenhoff <ottenhoff at longsight.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It doesn't need to be perfect, but it does need to be acceptable to
>>>> the community and done correctly.  Patches that will integrate
>>>> iRubric directly with Sakai aren't going to fly for the community
>>>> version of Sakai.  It needs to be done via a generic service for it to be
>> acceptable.
>>>>
>>>> Regarding the question of who is likely to do the work: the motivated
>>>> parties.  Here is how it worked with TurnItIn integration: 1) create
>>>> a generic API for plagiarism detection called contentreview-service,
>>>> 2) work with CLE Team to get patches for new service committed, 3)
>>>> request a contrib space in Sakai SVN, 4) maintain an open-source
>>>> integration layer in contrib,
>>>> 5) write up some documentation on how others can build and deploy the
>>>> integration.
>>>>
>>>> --Sam
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 10:40 PM, Nate Angell <nangell at rsmart.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> That sounds like great advice Sam. Perhaps Ramesh and his team can
>>>>> weigh in on how the work that they have already completed fits in
>>>>> that ideal vision, and/or, how where this existing work needs to be
>>>>> integrated so that we can move a step forward in the meantime. Let's
>>>>> not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
>>>>>
>>>>> = nate
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 20, 2012, at 7:24 PM, Sam Ottenhoff <ottenhoff at longsight.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> There seems to be one decent way to integrate a proprietary service
>>>>> with
>>>>> Sakai: create a generic service that can be implemented by the vendor.
>>>>>
>>>>> For plagiarism detection, Sakai has a contentreview-service.
>>>>> TurnItIn is the primary implementation of that service.
>>>>>
>>>>> So a rubric service would need to be created in Sakai that would
>>>>> allow iRubric (or others) to the implement the generic service.
>>>>>
>>>>> The generic service is in core Sakai.  The TurnItIn implementation
>>>>> of the service is in the contrib part of SVN.
>>>>>
>>>>> --Sam
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 9:07 PM, Nate Angell <nangell at rsmart.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Reazon has led some development in both Sakai CLE gradebook and
>>>>>> gradebook2 to help integrate iRubric into both. As an outcome of
>>>>>> that, there are patches necessary to both projects to enable
>>> integration.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can you help guide Ramesh and his team into how to ensure this code
>>>>>> can be a part of the community release to facilitate iRubric
>>>>>> integration in all contexts?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I include the Jons, Kirk, and Margaret because they are listed as
>>>>>> the "owners" of gradebook project in the Sakai wiki:
>>>>>> https://confluence.sakaiproject.org/display/SG2X/Home
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Nate Angell
>>>>>> Sakai Product Manager
>>>>>> rSmart
>>>>>> http://www.rsmart.com
>>>>>> http://twitter.com/xolotl
>>>>>> http://xolotl.org
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> sakai-dev mailing list
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> John Bush
>>> 602-490-0470
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> John Bush
>> 602-490-0470
>>
>
>
>
> --
> John Bush
> 602-490-0470

-- 
Jon Gorrono
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