[DG: Teaching & Learning] Journaling in Sakai
Meg Van Baalen-Wood
MegW at uwyo.edu
Tue Sep 14 07:25:15 PDT 2010
Hi Patti,
I believe the Dropbox will do what you are afte. If you check it out, I'll be curious to hear what you find.
Best,
Meg VB Wood
ECTL Faculty Associate
megw at uwyo.edu; ectltech at uwyo.edu
On 9/14/10 8:20 AM, "Patti D. Sullivan" <psullivan2 at derry.k12.nh.us> wrote:
Hi there. Can anyone tell\show me if Sakai provides a Journal
environment? One between a single student and teacher?
Thanks.
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: [DG: User Experience] micro-commentary use case for
> gradable content in Sakai 3? (John Norman)
> 2. Re: [DG: User Experience] micro-commentary use case for
> gradable content in Sakai 3? (Nate Angell)
> 3. Re: [DG: User Experience] micro-commentary use case for
> gradable content in Sakai 3? (Nate Angell)
> 4. Re: [DG: User Experience] micro-commentary use case for
> gradable content in Sakai 3? (Nate Angell)
> 5. Re: [DG: User Experience] micro-commentary use case for
> gradable content in Sakai 3? (Robert Squillace)
> 6. Re: [DG: User Experience] micro-commentary use case for
> gradable content in Sakai 3? (Michael Feldstein)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 21:46:47 +0100
> From: John Norman <john at caret.cam.ac.uk>
> Subject: Re: [DG: Teaching & Learning] [DG: User Experience]
> micro-commentary use case for gradable content in Sakai 3?
> To: Bruce D'Arcus <bdarcus at gmail.com>
> Cc: pedagogy Learning <pedagogy at collab.sakaiproject.org>, Sakai UX
> <sakai-ux at collab.sakaiproject.org>
> Message-ID: <0A93F294-18ED-4AE1-833A-151CD2EB310D at caret.cam.ac.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I think it is easy to recognise this need, but I think when we get to
> design time, we might want to make sure we can handle commentary on
> material that may not be inside Sakai. I can't summon a convincing example
> right now, but say all students were encouraged to publish a blog on
> Blogger. You might want to be able to snapshot an article and comment on
> it for teaching purposes, with those comments (and maybe even grades)
> being available to Sakai later. I suspect that if we design with this
> potential situation in mind we will create a more powerful and flexible
> solution.
>
> John
>
> On 13 Sep 2010, at 14:21, Bruce D'Arcus wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 3:14 AM, Kenneth Robert Romeo
>> <kenro at stanford.edu> wrote:
>>> This is a great question - it is exactly the kind of capability many of
>>> us
>>> in the T&L group are hoping for in future versions of Sakai. I guess
>>> the
>>> more pertinent question (or impertinent, depending on how you look at
>>> it)
>>> is *when* this kind of capability is going to be supported in Sakai.
>>> If I
>>> am not mistaken, it is not in the roadmap yet. Even just a best guess
>>> might be more possible than it was a year ago ....
>>
>> FWIW, my point in raising the use case was just to make sure it's
>> considered as part of the formal design process, with the assumption
>> that if it is not, then a) the feature surely will not be there in
>> initial versions of Sakai 3, and b) it may be more difficult to add it
>> later.
>>
>> The link Michael sent, I believe, shows that micro-commentary is a
>> known general problem, and so not difficult to implement. But I
>> imagine the edu-specific "wrinkle" I mentioned would offer some UI/UX
>> challenges, and hence some resources.
>>
>> Bruce
>> _______________________________________________
>> sakai-ux mailing list
>> sakai-ux at collab.sakaiproject.org
>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/sakai-ux
>>
>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to
>> sakai-ux-unsubscribe at collab.sakaiproject.org with a subject of
>> "unsubscribe"
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 17:05:50 -0400
> From: Nate Angell <nangell at rsmart.com>
> Subject: Re: [DG: Teaching & Learning] [DG: User Experience]
> micro-commentary use case for gradable content in Sakai 3?
> To: John Norman <john at caret.cam.ac.uk>
> Cc: Bruce D'Arcus <bdarcus at gmail.com>, pedagogy Learning
> <pedagogy at collab.sakaiproject.org>, Sakai UX
> <sakai-ux at collab.sakaiproject.org>
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTi=U3jhabG5jcPAUrfpfTPnDV+MeCXMpsw99DRm5 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> John: That use case sounds like an extension of Zotero inside Sakai ;)
>
> - Nate
>
> On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 4:46 PM, John Norman <john at caret.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>> I think it is easy to recognise this need, but I think when we get to
>> design time, we might want to make sure we can handle commentary on
>> material that may not be inside Sakai. I can't summon a convincing
>> example right now, but say all students were encouraged to publish a
>> blog on Blogger. You might want to be able to snapshot an article and
>> comment on it for teaching purposes, with those comments (and maybe even
>> grades) being available to Sakai later. I suspect that if we design with
>> this potential situation in mind we will create a more powerful and
>> flexible solution.
>>
>> John
>>
>> On 13 Sep 2010, at 14:21, Bruce D'Arcus wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 3:14 AM, Kenneth Robert Romeo
>>> <kenro at stanford.edu> wrote:
>>>> This is a great question - it is exactly the kind of capability many
>>>> of us
>>>> in the T&L group are hoping for in future versions of Sakai. ?I guess
>>>> the
>>>> more pertinent question (or impertinent, depending on how you look at
>>>> it)
>>>> is *when* this kind of capability is going to be supported in Sakai.
>>>> ?If I
>>>> am not mistaken, it is not in the roadmap yet. ?Even just a best guess
>>>> might be more possible than it was a year ago ....
>>>
>>> FWIW, my point in raising the use case was just to make sure it's
>>> considered as part of the formal design process, with the assumption
>>> that if it is not, then a) the feature surely will not be there in
>>> initial versions of Sakai 3, and b) it may be more difficult to add it
>>> later.
>>>
>>> The link Michael sent, I believe, shows that micro-commentary is a
>>> known general problem, and so not difficult to implement. But I
>>> imagine the edu-specific "wrinkle" I mentioned would offer some UI/UX
>>> challenges, and hence some resources.
>>>
>>> Bruce
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sakai-ux mailing list
>>> sakai-ux at collab.sakaiproject.org
>>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/sakai-ux
>>>
>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to
>>> sakai-ux-unsubscribe at collab.sakaiproject.org with a subject of
>>> "unsubscribe"
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> pedagogy mailing list
>> pedagogy at collab.sakaiproject.org
>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/pedagogy
>>
>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to
>> pedagogy-unsubscribe at collab.sakaiproject.org with a subject of
>> "unsubscribe"
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 17:29:42 -0400
> From: Nate Angell <nangell at rsmart.com>
> Subject: Re: [DG: Teaching & Learning] [DG: User Experience]
> micro-commentary use case for gradable content in Sakai 3?
> To: "Bruce D'Arcus" <bdarcus at gmail.com>
> Cc: Sakai UX <sakai-ux at collab.sakaiproject.org>, pedagogy Learning
> <pedagogy at collab.sakaiproject.org>
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTinTGC2DYBeJrXV+D4TiFy=qDVfW-U=8n_9Wf2HT at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I'm probably talking crazy, but seems like it would be easier to get
> something like Zotero to talk to Sakai 3 grading/content storage
> capabilities via "the UnSakai" than to recreate everything Zotero has
> already built in UX, etc.
>
> My only complaint about Zotero is the Firefox dependency.
>
> - Nate
>
> On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 5:18 PM, Bruce D'Arcus <bdarcus at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 5:05 PM, Nate Angell <nangell at rsmart.com> wrote:
>>
>>> John: That use case sounds like an extension of Zotero inside Sakai ;)
>>
>> Similar technology issues, but different goals (research notes, vs.
>> assessment commentary).
>>
>> Lance and I were chatting about this issue in Denver, where I was
>> mentioning I'd been having my students use FriendFeed for sharing and
>> commenting on reading materials. I think it's certainly worth
>> considering that one might want to grade and/or annotate/comment on
>> content that lives on the web outside of Sakai (notwithstanding
>> privacy issues and such), and that thinking in terms of snap-shoting
>> of that content within Sakai is probably a reasonable approach.
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 4:46 PM, John Norman <john at caret.cam.ac.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>> I think it is easy to recognise this need, but I think when we get to
>>>> design time, we might want to make sure we can handle commentary on
>>>> material that may not be inside Sakai. I can't summon a convincing
>>>> example right now, but say all students were encouraged to publish a
>>>> blog on Blogger. You might want to be able to snapshot an article and
>>>> comment on it for teaching purposes, with those comments (and maybe
>>>> even grades) being available to Sakai later. I suspect that if we
>>>> design with this potential situation in mind we will create a more
>>>> powerful and flexible solution.
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> On 13 Sep 2010, at 14:21, Bruce D'Arcus wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 3:14 AM, Kenneth Robert Romeo
>>>>> <kenro at stanford.edu> wrote:
>>>>>> This is a great question - it is exactly the kind of capability many
>>>>>> of us
>>>>>> in the T&L group are hoping for in future versions of Sakai. ?I
>>>>>> guess the
>>>>>> more pertinent question (or impertinent, depending on how you look
>>>>>> at it)
>>>>>> is *when* this kind of capability is going to be supported in Sakai.
>>>>>> ?If I
>>>>>> am not mistaken, it is not in the roadmap yet. ?Even just a best
>>>>>> guess
>>>>>> might be more possible than it was a year ago ....
>>>>>
>>>>> FWIW, my point in raising the use case was just to make sure it's
>>>>> considered as part of the formal design process, with the assumption
>>>>> that if it is not, then a) the feature surely will not be there in
>>>>> initial versions of Sakai 3, and b) it may be more difficult to add
>>>>> it
>>>>> later.
>>>>>
>>>>> The link Michael sent, I believe, shows that micro-commentary is a
>>>>> known general problem, and so not difficult to implement. But I
>>>>> imagine the edu-specific "wrinkle" I mentioned would offer some UI/UX
>>>>> challenges, and hence some resources.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bruce
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> sakai-ux mailing list
>>>>> sakai-ux at collab.sakaiproject.org
>>>>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/sakai-ux
>>>>>
>>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to
>>>>> sakai-ux-unsubscribe at collab.sakaiproject.org with a subject of
>>>>> "unsubscribe"
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> pedagogy mailing list
>>>> pedagogy at collab.sakaiproject.org
>>>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/pedagogy
>>>>
>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to
>>>> pedagogy-unsubscribe at collab.sakaiproject.org with a subject of
>>>> "unsubscribe"
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 17:57:45 -0400
> From: Nate Angell <nangell at rsmart.com>
> Subject: Re: [DG: Teaching & Learning] [DG: User Experience]
> micro-commentary use case for gradable content in Sakai 3?
> To: "Bruce D'Arcus" <bdarcus at gmail.com>
> Cc: Sakai UX <sakai-ux at collab.sakaiproject.org>, pedagogy Learning
> <pedagogy at collab.sakaiproject.org>
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTikAWw-t62Yt2-3Y3Ayc2d2AOQxiRYx57w7T3yc3 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 5:44 PM, Bruce D'Arcus <bdarcus at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 5:29 PM, Nate Angell <nangell at rsmart.com> wrote:
>>> I'm probably talking crazy, but seems like it would be easier to get
>>> something like Zotero to talk to Sakai 3 grading/content storage
>>> capabilities via "the UnSakai" than to recreate everything Zotero has
>>> already built in UX, etc.
>>
>> Well, much of what Zotero does (screen-scraping metadata, for example)
>> is orthogonal to this use case though. And what they do on the
>> annotation end is, at this point, really no more sophisticated than
>> the marginalia example that Michael posted.
>>
>> I guess the main difference is that you know the structure of content
>> within your application (WordPress, Moodle, Sakai), while you don't
>> with any random content out there on the web.
>>
>> But that's just technical implementation details; seems fair enough to
>> at least note the use case?
>
> Noted, tho let's be sure to look for it in the microspecs Clay promised ;)
>
> In related news: your use case may be orthogonal to Zotero's typical
> uses, but how great for Zotero if Sakai could be configured to be a
> Zotero server, and thereby also kill several birds with one stone.
>
>>
>>> My only complaint about Zotero is the Firefox dependency.
>>
>> Yeah, but there are reasons for that (like there's a whole lot that
>> happens in client code difficult or impossible to recreate on other
>> browsers; that, and limited resources). Still, I'd like to see this
>> change.
>
> Yes, I don't blame Zotero, I just don't like dependencies ;)
>
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>>> - Nate
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 5:18 PM, Bruce D'Arcus <bdarcus at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 5:05 PM, Nate Angell <nangell at rsmart.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> John: That use case sounds like an extension of Zotero inside Sakai
>>>>> ;)
>>>>
>>>> Similar technology issues, but different goals (research notes, vs.
>>>> assessment commentary).
>>>>
>>>> Lance and I were chatting about this issue in Denver, where I was
>>>> mentioning I'd been having my students use FriendFeed for sharing and
>>>> commenting on reading materials. I think it's certainly worth
>>>> considering that one might want to grade and/or annotate/comment on
>>>> content that lives on the web outside of Sakai (notwithstanding
>>>> privacy issues and such), and that thinking in terms of snap-shoting
>>>> of that content within Sakai is probably a reasonable approach.
>>>>
>>>> Bruce
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 4:46 PM, John Norman <john at caret.cam.ac.uk>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> I think it is easy to recognise this need, but I think when we get
>>>>>> to design time, we might want to make sure we can handle commentary
>>>>>> on material that may not be inside Sakai. I can't summon a
>>>>>> convincing example right now, but say all students were encouraged
>>>>>> to publish a blog on Blogger. You might want to be able to snapshot
>>>>>> an article and comment on it for teaching purposes, with those
>>>>>> comments (and maybe even grades) being available to Sakai later. I
>>>>>> suspect that if we design with this potential situation in mind we
>>>>>> will create a more powerful and flexible solution.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 13 Sep 2010, at 14:21, Bruce D'Arcus wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 3:14 AM, Kenneth Robert Romeo
>>>>>>> <kenro at stanford.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>> This is a great question - it is exactly the kind of capability
>>>>>>>> many of us
>>>>>>>> in the T&L group are hoping for in future versions of Sakai. ?I
>>>>>>>> guess the
>>>>>>>> more pertinent question (or impertinent, depending on how you look
>>>>>>>> at it)
>>>>>>>> is *when* this kind of capability is going to be supported in
>>>>>>>> Sakai. ?If I
>>>>>>>> am not mistaken, it is not in the roadmap yet. ?Even just a best
>>>>>>>> guess
>>>>>>>> might be more possible than it was a year ago ....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> FWIW, my point in raising the use case was just to make sure it's
>>>>>>> considered as part of the formal design process, with the
>>>>>>> assumption
>>>>>>> that if it is not, then a) the feature surely will not be there in
>>>>>>> initial versions of Sakai 3, and b) it may be more difficult to add
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> later.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The link Michael sent, I believe, shows that micro-commentary is a
>>>>>>> known general problem, and so not difficult to implement. But I
>>>>>>> imagine the edu-specific "wrinkle" I mentioned would offer some
>>>>>>> UI/UX
>>>>>>> challenges, and hence some resources.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bruce
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> sakai-ux mailing list
>>>>>>> sakai-ux at collab.sakaiproject.org
>>>>>>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/sakai-ux
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to
>>>>>>> sakai-ux-unsubscribe at collab.sakaiproject.org with a subject of
>>>>>>> "unsubscribe"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> pedagogy mailing list
>>>>>> pedagogy at collab.sakaiproject.org
>>>>>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/pedagogy
>>>>>>
>>>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to
>>>>>> pedagogy-unsubscribe at collab.sakaiproject.org with a subject of
>>>>>> "unsubscribe"
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 09:57:45 -0400
> From: Robert Squillace <rs84 at nyu.edu>
> Subject: Re: [DG: Teaching & Learning] [DG: User Experience]
> micro-commentary use case for gradable content in Sakai 3?
> To: John Norman <john at caret.cam.ac.uk>
> Cc: Bruce D'Arcus <bdarcus at gmail.com>, pedagogy Learning
> <pedagogy at collab.sakaiproject.org>, Sakai UX
> <sakai-ux at collab.sakaiproject.org>
> Message-ID: <57c0f2e92a9ad.4c8f4719 at mail.nyu.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Dear All,
>
> I wanted to support John's point about the value of an annotation tool
> capable of handling commentary on material outside Sakai. I think such a
> tool would be enormously useful, and could in fact make humanities faculty
> fall in rapturous love with Sakai 3. The reason is social reading -
> social reading is probably the killer app for faculty in humanities
> fields, as Lucy Appert and I discovered at a summer roundtable she
> organized in our program. Even technophobic faculty members who haven't
> the faintest idea why they would ever tag anything or participate in an
> online network with colleagues will say things like, "What I'd REALLY like
> to be able to do is have a text online that all my students could mark up
> TOGETHER, the way I encourage them to mark up their individual books
> (which they avoid doing because they want to sell them back to the book
> store at the end of the semester)."
>
> An annotation tool that allowed commentary on e-books outside Sakai might
> provide the very functionality they are describing (if such a tool could
> allow the posting of links, attachments, and images, all the better).
> Some of our instructors have used applications like Book Glutton, but it
> has the same problem that all 3rd party apps have - the comments students
> post belong to Book Glutton and live only on the Book Glutton server; they
> don't belong to the student and can't be stored in a personal repository,
> shared outside the Book Glutton site, etc. Even the ability to annotate
> particular passages the instructor has snapshot (snapshotted?) from
> whatever source (within fair use, of course) would be extremely welcome -
> being able to post, say, a T'ang Dynasty Chinese lyric or a Shakespearean
> soliloquy that all students in a class could annotate would be a godsend
> for many instructors, and the ability for students to maintain ownership
> of their annotations is crucial. [Furth
> er out, one could even imagine a class collaboratively turning a
> plain-text edition of a work (the e-book equivalent of a Dover thrift
> edition - and, of course, very few e-books include any scholarly apparatus
> at all) into a critical edition - or such scholarly editing at a higher
> level among faculty colleagues].
>
> Yours,
> Bob Squillace
>
> Dr. Robert L Squillace
> Assistant Dean for Academic Affairs
> Liberal Studies Program
> New York University
> 726 Broadway, 6th Floor
> New York, NY 10003-9580
> (212) 992-8735
> rs84 at nyu.edu
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Norman <john at caret.cam.ac.uk>
> Date: Monday, September 13, 2010 4:47 pm
> Subject: Re: [DG: Teaching & Learning] [DG: User
> Experience] micro-commentary use case for gradable content in Sakai 3?
> To: Bruce D'Arcus <bdarcus at gmail.com>
> Cc: pedagogy Learning <pedagogy at collab.sakaiproject.org>, Sakai UX
> <sakai-ux at collab.sakaiproject.org>
>
>> I think it is easy to recognise this need, but I think when we get to
>> design time, we might want to make sure we can handle commentary on
>> material that may not be inside Sakai. I can't summon a convincing
>> example right now, but say all students were encouraged to publish a
>> blog on Blogger. You might want to be able to snapshot an article and
>> comment on it for teaching purposes, with those comments (and maybe
>> even grades) being available to Sakai later. I suspect that if we
>> design with this potential situation in mind we will create a more
>> powerful and flexible solution.
>>
>> John
>>
>> On 13 Sep 2010, at 14:21, Bruce D'Arcus wrote:
>>
>> > On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 3:14 AM, Kenneth Robert Romeo
>> > <kenro at stanford.edu> wrote:
>> >> This is a great question - it is exactly the kind of capability
>> many of us
>> >> in the T&L group are hoping for in future versions of Sakai. I
>> guess the
>> >> more pertinent question (or impertinent, depending on how you look
>> at it)
>> >> is *when* this kind of capability is going to be supported in
>> Sakai. If I
>> >> am not mistaken, it is not in the roadmap yet. Even just a best
>> guess
>> >> might be more possible than it was a year ago ....
>> >
>> > FWIW, my point in raising the use case was just to make sure it's
>> > considered as part of the formal design process, with the assumption
>> > that if it is not, then a) the feature surely will not be there in
>> > initial versions of Sakai 3, and b) it may be more difficult to add
>> it
>> > later.
>> >
>> > The link Michael sent, I believe, shows that micro-commentary is a
>> > known general problem, and so not difficult to implement. But I
>> > imagine the edu-specific "wrinkle" I mentioned would offer some UI/UX
>> > challenges, and hence some resources.
>> >
>> > Bruce
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > sakai-ux mailing list
>> > sakai-ux at collab.sakaiproject.org
>> > http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/sakai-ux
>> >
>> > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to
>> sakai-ux-unsubscribe at collab.sakaiproject.org with a subject of
>> "unsubscribe"
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> pedagogy mailing list
>> pedagogy at collab.sakaiproject.org
>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/pedagogy
>>
>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to
>> pedagogy-unsubscribe at collab.sakaiproject.org with a subject of
>> "unsubscribe"
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 07:17:12 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Michael Feldstein <michael.feldstein at oracle.com>
> Subject: Re: [DG: Teaching & Learning] [DG: User Experience]
> micro-commentary use case for gradable content in Sakai 3?
> To: Robert Squillace <rs84 at nyu.edu>, John Norman
> <john at caret.cam.ac.uk>
> Cc: Bruce D'Arcus <bdarcus at gmail.com>, pedagogy Learning
> <pedagogy at collab.sakaiproject.org>, Sakai UX
> <sakai-ux at collab.sakaiproject.org>
> Message-ID: <81af4703-9567-49ff-b96b-bdedc4499e42 at default>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252
>
> This idea is expanding fast, so let's try to segment the use cases. Here
> are a few:
>
> - Users can individually mark up text-based content in the LMS.
> - Users can collaboratively mark up text-based content in the LMS.
> - Users can collaboratively mark up text and/or images in the LMS.
> - Users can collaboratively mark up text and/or images out on the web.
> - Users can collaboratively mark up texts and/or images for eBooks where
> individual copies are stored on their offline readers and synchronized
> online periodically.
> - Any markup in any of the scenarios above can take a grade, rubric, etc.
>
> Some random thoughts about the use cases:
>
> - Marking up items within an image is a different ballgame than simply
> marking sections in the HTML DOM. But it could be very useful.
> - Once you start marking up stuff outside the LMS, you need to start
> looking at a browser plugin like Zotero (or a smart phone app). Maybe
> there's a way to suck the external page into the LMS and mark it up within
> an iFrame or something server-side, but that's beyond my technical ability
> to evaluate.
> - Marking up offline resources strikes me as by far the hardest thing to
> do, for a variety of reasons. It's probably not practical at the moment.
> - This could be a separate, LMS-independent open source project that could
> plug into various LMS and non-LMS projects the way Marginalia does.
> Approaching it this way might enable us to attract other developers.
>
> A word of caution: There are a few private source solutions along these
> lines, and if you've looked at them at all, you'll know that the UI can
> get very complicated very quickly.
>
> - m
>
>
> --
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Squillace [mailto:rs84 at nyu.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 9:58 AM
> To: John Norman
> Cc: Bruce D'Arcus; pedagogy Learning; Sakai UX
> Subject: Re: [DG: Teaching & Learning] [DG: User Experience]
> micro-commentary use case for gradable content in Sakai 3?
>
> Dear All,
>
> I wanted to support John's point about the value of an annotation tool
> capable of handling commentary on material outside Sakai. I think such a
> tool would be enormously useful, and could in fact make humanities faculty
> fall in rapturous love with Sakai 3. The reason is social reading -
> social reading is probably the killer app for faculty in humanities
> fields, as Lucy Appert and I discovered at a summer roundtable she
> organized in our program. Even technophobic faculty members who haven't
> the faintest idea why they would ever tag anything or participate in an
> online network with colleagues will say things like, "What I'd REALLY like
> to be able to do is have a text online that all my students could mark up
> TOGETHER, the way I encourage them to mark up their individual books
> (which they avoid doing because they want to sell them back to the book
> store at the end of the semester)."
>
> An annotation tool that allowed commentary on e-books outside Sakai might
> provide the very functionality they are describing (if such a tool could
> allow the posting of links, attachments, and images, all the better).
> Some of our instructors have used applications like Book Glutton, but it
> has the same problem that all 3rd party apps have - the comments students
> post belong to Book Glutton and live only on the Book Glutton server; they
> don't belong to the student and can't be stored in a personal repository,
> shared outside the Book Glutton site, etc. Even the ability to annotate
> particular passages the instructor has snapshot (snapshotted?) from
> whatever source (within fair use, of course) would be extremely welcome -
> being able to post, say, a T'ang Dynasty Chinese lyric or a Shakespearean
> soliloquy that all students in a class could annotate would be a godsend
> for many instructors, and the ability for students to maintain ownership
> of their annotations is crucial. [Furth
> er out, one could even imagine a class collaboratively turning a
> plain-text edition of a work (the e-book equivalent of a Dover thrift
> edition - and, of course, very few e-books include any scholarly
> apparatus at all) into a critical edition - or such scholarly editing at
> a higher level among faculty colleagues].
>
> Yours,
> Bob Squillace
>
> Dr. Robert L Squillace
> Assistant Dean for Academic Affairs
> Liberal Studies Program
> New York University
> 726 Broadway, 6th Floor
> New York, NY 10003-9580
> (212) 992-8735
> rs84 at nyu.edu
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Norman <john at caret.cam.ac.uk>
> Date: Monday, September 13, 2010 4:47 pm
> Subject: Re: [DG: Teaching & Learning] [DG: User
> Experience] micro-commentary use case for gradable content in Sakai 3?
> To: Bruce D'Arcus <bdarcus at gmail.com>
> Cc: pedagogy Learning <pedagogy at collab.sakaiproject.org>, Sakai UX
> <sakai-ux at collab.sakaiproject.org>
>
>> I think it is easy to recognise this need, but I think when we get to
>> design time, we might want to make sure we can handle commentary on
>> material that may not be inside Sakai. I can't summon a convincing
>> example right now, but say all students were encouraged to publish a
>> blog on Blogger. You might want to be able to snapshot an article and
>> comment on it for teaching purposes, with those comments (and maybe
>> even grades) being available to Sakai later. I suspect that if we
>> design with this potential situation in mind we will create a more
>> powerful and flexible solution.
>>
>> John
>>
>> On 13 Sep 2010, at 14:21, Bruce D'Arcus wrote:
>>
>> > On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 3:14 AM, Kenneth Robert Romeo
>> > <kenro at stanford.edu> wrote:
>> >> This is a great question - it is exactly the kind of capability
>> many of us
>> >> in the T&L group are hoping for in future versions of Sakai. I
>> guess the
>> >> more pertinent question (or impertinent, depending on how you look
>> at it)
>> >> is *when* this kind of capability is going to be supported in
>> Sakai. If I
>> >> am not mistaken, it is not in the roadmap yet. Even just a best
>> >> guess might be more possible than it was a year ago ....
>> >
>> > FWIW, my point in raising the use case was just to make sure it's
>> > considered as part of the formal design process, with the assumption
>> > that if it is not, then a) the feature surely will not be there in
>> > initial versions of Sakai 3, and b) it may be more difficult to add
>> it
>> > later.
>> >
>> > The link Michael sent, I believe, shows that micro-commentary is a
>> > known general problem, and so not difficult to implement. But I
>> > imagine the edu-specific "wrinkle" I mentioned would offer some
>> > UI/UX challenges, and hence some resources.
>> >
>> > Bruce
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> >
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> End of pedagogy Digest, Vol 19, Issue 8
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>
--
Regards,
Patti Sullivan
psullivan2 at derry.k12.nh.us (remember the 2!)
Gilbert H. Hood Middle School
Technology Teacher
5 Derry Road
Derry, NH 03038
School: 603 432-1224
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