[gradebook2-dev] [Building Sakai] gradebook and gradebook2 iRubric integration

Fri May 31 15:53:01 PDT 2013

Hi, John

I'm having trouble seeing the distinction you're drawing. Assignments and
T&Q, as the examples, both have a UI's, of course; and, grading for those
takes place in those respective UI's.  The items don't always
have a grade at the time of the association of that item with the
grade store.. So, each of those tools have a mechanism for defining an
item, defining the item's association with the grade store, and for
sending grades to the store when graded from their respective UI's.

Also, I can't picture what you're seeing as being an obstacle here:
'... you'd also have an issue that you wouldn't be able to use irubric
to help grade an assignment.'

Again, not sure what you're thinking about there, a primary point of
this integration being to allow precisely that sort of thing...and
that's what the link in the GB2 UI would provide for, for all the
tools..... so in a broad swathe, since I really missed the specific
point there, is that externally provided tools generally 'own' the
grading process for the items they associate with the store; I imagine
iRubric to not be an exception to that. And, it may not be germane,
but some tools, I believe, have a way of associating with an item and
also allowing the GB2 UI be a locus for grading.... but, at the
moment, I am not sure of the status of that (assignments I think) ..in
any case, that is a less restrictive relationship and so, I think,
can't be related to what you are referring to .... on the other hand,
if it is, and you are saying that iRubric does not provide a UI
component for the actual grading, then I misunderstand iRubric.

Anyway, I will be at Open Apereo next week... maybe we can wave hands
and whiteboard pens down there.

On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 11:03 AM, John Bush <john.bush at rsmart.com> wrote:
> Well here's where I came down on my thinking around externally
> provided grades vs something like iRubric.  Things like assignments
> and tests and quizzes I think are fundamentally different, they push
> grades, and then push grades from the backend, there is no UI
> associated with that.  That is different from what you do with a
> rubric, you might already have a grade or not, and you are using
> another tool to help generate a grade.  If we tried to build this on
> top of the external grade stuff, you'd also have an issue that you
> wouldn't be able to use irubric to help grade an assignment.
>
> The gb2 work isn't a 100% complete, but you can see where I'm at in this branch:
>
> https://source.sakaiproject.org/contrib/rsmart/msub/gradebook2/branches/CLE-10413/
>
> I'm still trying to remove all the iRubric specific stuff, but its
> probably like 80% done.
>
> On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 5:09 PM, Jon Gorrono <jpgorrono at ucdavis.edu> wrote:
>> This looks pretty good, John.
>>
>> I have been hoping that we would be able to also increase the
>> experience for other score providing tools with all of this.  I wonder
>> if that can still be done without going through a long process of
>> upgrading them to provide scoring agents per this API from their
>> codebase and that we could create an agent for Assignments and for
>> Tests&Quizzes, even from within the GB2, or some service component,
>> codebase....
>>
>> On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 3:48 PM, John Bush <john.bush at rsmart.com> wrote:
>>> I want to circle back around on this thread.  We've gone a differently
>>> way than lti, one that more closely resembles how turnitin works in
>>> CLE, which I think Sam suggested early on at some point.
>>>
>>> We've created an abstraction called a ScoringAgent.
>>> https://source.sakaiproject.org/svn/msub/rsmart.com/sakai/trunk/scoring-service/
>>>
>>> The idea is that gradebook2, gradebook, assignments, and whatever else
>>> in core sakai would bind to that, in the same way ContentReview
>>> service works.
>>>
>>> Then there is an irubric implementation of a ScoringAgent here:
>>> https://source.sakaiproject.org/svn/msub/rsmart.com/sakai/trunk/irubric/
>>>
>>> We are in the process of refactoring the old iRubric patches to live
>>> under the cover of this paradigm.  Which for the most part really
>>> won't change the user experience at all.  But is a cleaner and
>>> hopefully more acceptable approach to one day including the
>>> ScoringAgent service into core.  There would no longer be any patches
>>> spread out across various modules.  For anyone, not deploying the
>>> irubric impl, nothing would break or seem different in anyway, until
>>> you deploy it and turn it on.  We are even keeping the old irubric
>>> configuration, so that should make the transition very seamless for
>>> anyone already using the patches.
>>>
>>> We are handling the gradebook2 pieces of this rework now, eventually
>>> we'd want to refactor the gradebook1 patches as well.
>>>
>>> I have a partially working impl now, but there is still more work to
>>> be done.  When I have the gb2 work in a reasonable state I'll ask for
>>> some more eyes.  I might need a little help from gb2 devs along the
>>> way, I'm not much of a gwt expert.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 1:41 PM, Ramesh Sabetiashraf
>>> <ramesh.sabeti at reazon.com> wrote:
>>>> We’re playing around with the LTI tool in 2.9 and it seems that the LTI tool
>>>> can be configured to tie to a single gradebook item.  Is that a correct
>>>> assumption?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ramesh
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: sakai-dev-bounces at collab.sakaiproject.org
>>>> [mailto:sakai-dev-bounces at collab.sakaiproject.org] On Behalf Of Charles
>>>> Severance
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 4:19 AM
>>>> To: Jon Gorrono
>>>> Cc: sakai-dev
>>>> Subject: Re: [Building Sakai] gradebook and gradebook2 iRubric integration
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The latest LTI code basically has a bunch of API calls that allow tools to
>>>> make, manage and launch LTI placements under tool control.  This is in 2.9
>>>> and easily ported to 2.8 - the post-2.9 trunk code in LTI has a cleaned up
>>>> UI and better integration with Site Info as well.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It is how we made LTI work as a core resource type in LessonBuilder.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> /Chuck
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 26, 2012, at 8:50 PM, Jon Gorrono wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't think this is crazy at all, and is just what I think we had in mind.
>>>>
>>>> One thing I wanted to add is that the BLTI version that was targetee for 2.8
>>>> includes a mechanism for pushing and updating grades, so perhaps a ws
>>>> callback would not be necessary. And, IIRC a grade is a number between
>>>> 0 and 1 in the spec.
>>>>
>>>> WRT GB2, there are some basic UI components that Ramesh and crew introduced
>>>> in
>>>> their coding and those are good ones in general: a button for updating
>>>> grades (via a 'pull' or request for a 'push') for one. And those bits
>>>> are also relevant to any other tool supplying grades to the sakai
>>>> gradebook (edu-services), so the thought was for GB2 to introduce a
>>>> general mechanism for handling those things. And that mechanism would be
>>>> (and in simpler cases, perhaps not) the BLTI launch mechanism...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> John Bush
>>> 602-490-0470
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jon Gorrono
>> PGP Key: 0x5434509D -
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>> http{middleware.ucdavis.edu}
>
>
>
> --
> John Bush
> 602-490-0470

--
Jon Gorrono
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