[cle-release-team] CLE 2.9.2 update: merge work complete

Matthew Jones matthew at longsight.com
Fri Apr 19 14:00:41 PDT 2013 

Thanks for taking care of this Anthony. If Sam or I doesn't get to this
tonight I'll do it tomorrow. Was stuck pretty deep in local issues this
week.


On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 3:34 PM, Anthony Whyte <arwhyte at umich.edu> wrote:

> Agreed.  Both trunk and 2.9.x changes have been reverted and noted in
> SAK-23435.  Aaron tested trunk; I tested 2.9.x locally.
>
> I leave it to the advocates for change to gather further opinions on the
> i18n and dev lists.  I do think we can sort this out to everyone's
> satisfaction.
>
> However, in my opinion such a discussion should not block further progress
> on 2.9.2 or the 2.9.2 release itself since the ticket is neither a blocker
> nor critical (it may not even constitute a bug).
>
> Let's get an RC tag out.  We are now a few days behind schedule.
>
> Now back to my vacation day,
>
> Cheers,
>
> Anthony
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 19, 2013, at 1:05 PM, Beth Kirschner wrote:
>
> > I think this was a well intentioned change that needs more thought - I
> vote for backing out SAK-23435 for now. We should poll the I18N list for
> their opinions, clearly stating what the use cases are (e.g. Site
> Preferences, Personal Preferences, etc.), along with the pro's and con's of
> both sides.
> >
> > I think Wikipedia has a different audience than the users of a
> particular Sakai instance at a particular institution in a particular
> locale. I can see arguments for both sides, so given that there is no clear
> right path, I think the best course of action is to back out the change and
> gather some more opinions. If lacking a clear consensus, perhaps the right
> choice would be to make this a configurable option, with the pre-SAK-23435
> behavior as default.
> >
> > - Beth
> >
> > On Apr 19, 2013, at 11:22 AM, Anthony Whyte <arwhyte at umich.edu> wrote:
> >
> >>>
> >>> I'm asking this for the community which doesn't use English.
> >>
> >>
> >> What does English vs non-English speakers have to do with this
> discussion?  As you point out in the ticket, if the default locale is set
> to Chinese, the drop down options are spelled out using Chinese characters
> (and sorted accordingly).
> >>
> >> Anth
> >>
> >> On Apr 19, 2013, at 11:13 AM, Jean-Francois Leveque wrote:
> >>
> >>> SAK-23435 is the requirement I'm referring to.
> >>>
> >>> Please take time to think about it and why wikipedia does it the way
> we're asking.
> >>>
> >>> If you still disagree, please ask for more input or state your
> decision on i18n at collab.sakaiproject.org.
> >>>
> >>> I'm asking this for the community which doesn't use English.
> >>>
> >>> Displaying the locale in its own locale does not impose
> locale-independent naming, it provides locale-dependent display of its own
> locale.
> >>>
> >>> Do we expect users to be able to spell their languages and countries
> in all other languages?
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>>
> >>> J-F
> >>>
> >>> On 19/04/2013 17:05, Anthony Whyte wrote:
> >>>> At first I was inclined to agree with JFL: display each language
> option in the drop down using the script and common name understood by each
> native speaker.  So the Russian option is displayed in Cyrillic script,
> Hungarian is labeled Magyar and so on, irrespective of the default locale
> controlling text in the rest of the interface.
> >>>>
> >>>> On reflection, this appears wrong to me and represents an exception
> to the notion that interface elements such as drop down options should
> adhere to the linguistic, cultural and technical conventions and standards
> of a chosen locale.  The approach taken in
> https://jira.sakaiproject.org/browse/SAK-23435 appears to violate this
> principle as it imposes a locale-independent naming and sorting approach
> which renders certain drop down options potentially incomprehensible to
> certain users, irrespective of their preferred locale.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm with Aaron, we should revert this change (for a quick review of
> what's changed compare Nightly2 2.8.x and 2.9.x).
> >>>>
> >>>> JFL--what requirement are you referring to below?
> >>>>
> >>>> Cheers,
> >>>>
> >>>> Anth
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Apr 19, 2013, at 10:12 AM, Jean-Francois Leveque wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> It won't pass testing on i18n user locale preferences requirement.
> ;-)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 19/04/2013 16:11, Neal Caidin wrote:
> >>>>>> So if rc01 passes testing, we would have an rc02 anyway?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Apr 19, 2013, at 9:57 AM, Jean-Francois Leveque<
> jean-francois.leveque at upmc.fr>   wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> We could decide to have a rc02 if we can't wait for rc01.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 19/04/2013 15:55, Neal Caidin wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> I'm not asking for postponing 2.9.2-rc01, but I think we really
> need it in the 2.9.2 official release.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> The point of the rc01 is that if it passes testing then it
> becomes the official release. The decision needs to be made whether to back
> out the change and proceed with rc01, or fix it for 2.9.2, which means
> delaying rc01 until that is figured out. Saying to not fix it for rc01, but
> do fix it for the 2.9.2 official release doesn't work. (Am I wrong? This is
> what makes sense to me.)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>>> Neal
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Apr 19, 2013, at 9:38 AM, Jean-Francois Leveque<
> jean-francois.leveque at upmc.fr>    wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I think the locale should be displayed in its own language.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Look at how the languages are displayed on the left in
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page for example.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> If you don't know how the locale is named in its own language,
> you should not choose this language in the preferences, AFAICT.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Please don't forget I'm doing this for others. If the majority
> of the CLE team really want what Aaron wants, please make your statement on
> i18n at collab.sakaiproject.org. Otherwise, I expect to get this fix in 2.9
> ASAP.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I'm not asking for postponing 2.9.2-rc01, but I think we really
> need it in the 2.9.2 official release.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> J-F
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On 19/04/2013 15:25, Aaron Zeckoski wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> This is because the actual name of the "Nederlands" language is
> Dutch
> >>>>>>>>>> (to an english speaker) and D is before E. I actually think this
> >>>>>>>>>> change from
> >>>>>>>>>> https://jira.sakaiproject.org/browse/SAK-23435
> >>>>>>>>>> is wrong the more I think about it. The language should be
> displayed
> >>>>>>>>>> to the user and sorted by the language name they would
> understand and
> >>>>>>>>>> not by the name of the language in a language they probably
> cannot
> >>>>>>>>>> read or might not know.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> A solution might be show the language as "Dutch (Netherlands) -
> >>>>>>>>>> Nederlands (Nederland)" or something like that. There is plenty
> of
> >>>>>>>>>> room in the UI for it.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I think all the changes for this ticket need to be reverted and
> >>>>>>>>>> discussed further. They definitely should not be merged to 2.9.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> -AZ
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 8:47 AM, Jean-Francois Leveque
> >>>>>>>>>> <jean-francois.leveque at upmc.fr>     wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> As far as I can tell, the values are not in a alpha
> case-insensitive which
> >>>>>>>>>>> is the expected order, or even case-sensitive order, AFAICT.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> français is before Deutsch and Nederlands is before English.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Each locale is now displayed in the language for that locale,
> but the
> >>>>>>>>>>> sorting should be on displayed, not other values such as the
> locale name in
> >>>>>>>>>>> English.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Please check the LocaleComparator and provide code that does
> the work.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> J-F
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On 19/04/2013 14:01, Aaron Zeckoski wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> It looks fine to me as is (appearing in alpha order by
> language) but I
> >>>>>>>>>>>> guess there is some concern about the ordering of the
> languages or
> >>>>>>>>>>>> something I am not getting.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> -AZ
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 7:46 AM, Neal Caidin
> >>>>>>>>>>>> <nealcaidin at sakaifoundation.org>      wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> What are the options?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> * fix and re-merge before cutting 2.9.2-rc01
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> * proceed with cutting rc01 with this as a known issue
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> * back this change out of 2.9.x to revert the regression,
> then proceed
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> with rc01
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I presume that this is currently the only issue holding up
> rc01?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Neal
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 19, 2013, at 5:04 AM, Anthony Whyte<arwhyte at umich.edu>
>      wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm on the road today (day off) but I'll check back later
> this morning
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and see if there is any further work on the ticket.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anth
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 19, 2013, at 4:30 AM, Jean-Francois Leveque wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Changes in https://jira.sakaiproject.org/browse/SAK-23435broke the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> locales order in the user preferences.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I had to reopen this issue. I also had to close it before
> reopening
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because of the workflow. :(
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> J-F
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 18/04/2013 21:48, Anthony Whyte wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sam, Aaron and I just completed 2.9.x merge work.  The
> 2.9.x merge
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> backlog now stands at 2 tickets, both of which are being
> punted to the 2.9.3
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> release. [1]  I think its time to consider cutting
> 2.9.0-rc01 tag.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I also recommend that from this moment until 2.9.x is
> released, we
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limit branch merge work to release blockers and
> regressions discovered
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> during final testing.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've started a local build of 2.9.x-all against an empty
> .m2 repo.  If
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I hit a build failure you'll be the first to know.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anthony
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [1] https://jira.sakaiproject.org/browse/SAK-22798
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    major, accessibility; merge conflicts, Gonzalo
> Silverio and Joe
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Humbert concur that we can punt on this
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    https://jira.sakaiproject.org/browse/SAK-22521
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    major, neoPortal sites drawer issue, no trunk commit
> revision
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provided despite repeated requests, so punt
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/cle-release-team
> >
>
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