[sakai2-tcc] TCC - CLECC, Wednesday, May 1, 10 am Eastern Daylight/ 2 pm GMT

Wed May 1 11:29:38 PDT 2013

I agree that confluence and jira in more recent versions work tie really
well together. Moving to github (for sakai-core) was proposed in the past
on list a few times and seems like it could happen. If that were the case
I'd move everything; source, documentation, issue tracking, and that would
be a pretty time consuming move, as well as something that would be a major
change. Is there someone in the community who would volunteer to work on
that or funding available. Any what are the significant advantages of that
over what we have now? I don't know the answer to those at the moment..

Maybe I don't see as much of a problem with Confluence or the motivation
for extraordinary effort as described.. Much of the documentation there was
written years ago by a different set of developers and is still valid
information. Not that much has changed from 2.5->2.9, as the core is
essentially still the same. Many links come up both with internal and via
Google searches and if anything I'd say that what is lacking is additional
details on existing content and new content, which probably won't be solved
by starting off fresh. Sure, many of the pages could use some
reorganization with popular pages given more prominence and some outdated
pages moved off to "legacy/attic", but  it would take an experienced
developer (like Noah mentioned) to do some of the work in some of the
sections.

It looks like confluence has some statistics! (News to me) Here are the top
10 most popular spaces for April 2013. (Can be seen by logging in and
clicking Browse->Activity)

 Confluence Dashboard (53352)
 Documentation (33614)
 WG: Programmer's Cafe (19031)
 OAE: 3akai (13712)
 OAE: Nakamura Documentation (8569)
 WG: QA (8484)
 Project: Portfolio (8403)
 WG: Accessibility (8248)
 Management / Project Coordination (8220)
 DG: Teaching and Learning (7245)

*In the Documentation Space (April 2013)*

Page: Sakai CLE 2.9 release notes (1764)
Page: Sakai CLE 2.9 install guide (source) (1370)
Page: Sakai Admin Guide - Advanced Tomcat (and Apache) Configuration (1182)
Page: Sakai Admin Guide - Full (1045)
Page: Sakai CLE 2.8 release notes (1036)
Page: Sakai 2.9 skin guide (1027)
Page: Sakai CLE 2.8 install guide (source) (981)
Home page: Documentation (855)
Page: Sakai CLE 2.9 install guide (binary) (788)
Page: Sakai Admin Guide - Configuring Sakai from within the Web Application
(612)

*In the Programmer's Cafe Space (April 2013)*

Page: Setting Up Tomcat For Remote Debugging (4400)
Page: Development Environment Setup Walkthrough (2384)
Page: Install Tomcat 7 (724)
Home page: Programmer's Cafe (682)
Page: Debugging Tomcat Remotely Using Eclipse (571)
Page: Sakai Programmer Manual (427)
Page: Install Eclipse WTP (385)
Page: Add bin and target to global svn ignore in Eclipse (382)
Page: Sakai development getting started (269)
Page: Development Environment Setup Walkthrough (2.5.x-2.8.x) (22)

On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 1:43 PM, Neal Caidin <nealcaidin at sakaifoundation.org
> wrote:

> Generally speaking, starting small is the way to go. If we could come up
> with a plan to try out a new approach (yet to be defined) on a small chunk
> of something and see how it works, that seems ideal. For example, if we
> could come up with a system to try on release notes, and try just that out
> and see how it works and how the Community responds, then we can expand and
> move over modular areas of the documentation over to the new
> process/tool/curation effort and grow it into the repository for official
> documentation. This way if we run into a problem early (technical,
> resource-wise, or whatever) we will be able to identify that the process
> doesn't work and kill the project as soon as possible. Fail as early as
> possible.
>
> -- Neal
>
> On Apr 30, 2013, at 1:31 PM, Noah Botimer <botimer at umich.edu> wrote:
>
> I like all of what you say here (I've used Jekyll, Middleman, and GitHub
> Pages to nice effect, as well as self-hosting).
>
> However, I don't think it has to be a one-shot change. If there are folks
> ready to work with the tools they know, that's where to start. I think our
> information problem is bigger than our technology problem and converting
> content is another layer.
>
> I love Markdown and the rest of these tools/services -- I have almost
> entirely sworn off wikis for them on my projects/teams -- but I just don't
> think that can lead the charge when a lot of curation is the main task.
>
> I would love to see a place emerge where new stuff can be authored with
> this workflow, though. We can prove it out and use it if it works. It seems
> unlikely that those excited enough to work on that new infrastructure would
> be excited about trolling through Confluence, so I imagine it wouldn't
> conflict a whole lot (I hate telling volunteers they should work on
> something other than what excites them) -- just don't make one dependent on
> the other.
>
> Thanks,
> -Noah
>
> On Apr 30, 2013, at 11:45 AM, David Adams wrote:
>
> I think it would be wise to have an entirely separate site for official
> documentation as the challenge at present is that it's impossible to find
> anything because of the duplication of outdated content in multiple spaces.
> Strongly consider using something entirely different than Confluence as
> well. Some static website generation tool is probably the right solution,
> with the doc sources kept in source control, and matched up to the
> appropriate Sakai version. Put it at github to make it easily
> branchable/mergeable and to encourage community contributions. In fact, if
> you use Github, they can automatically generate and host the site using
> Jekyll. I think a clean break is the best strategy. Put a banner on all the
> current docs to say they're out of date, and start moving to something new.
>
> David Adams
> Director, Systems Integration and Support
> Virginia Tech Learning Technologies
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 9:28 AM, Noah Botimer <botimer at umich.edu> wrote:
>
>> I'm curious... Isn't what we suffer the usual documentation death by wiki
>> and diluted/convoluted responsibility?
>>
>> Don't get me wrong -- I love wikis and am always in favor of an open
>> contribution model. But I'm skeptical after years of watching our (and
>> others') grab bag spaces that this is the place for "official"
>> documentation. Perhaps the tool is fine, perhaps not, but without a clear
>> demarcation, it's hard for even the most diligent to find and update the
>> information.
>>
>> So, I might shade this proposal with a slight variation. This is partly
>> incited by the memory of large archival/deletion efforts in the past, which
>> I'm not sure hit the mark. I don't think the proposal is bad or off in its
>> intention -- just offering some adjustments for consideration:
>>
>> 1. Leave everything in place and mark it with a "community/development
>> space" header.
>>
>> 2. Make a *simple* document inventory that lists what we think always
>> needs to remain current and what should be locked to a release as
>> "official" documentation, finding the existing pages that have this
>> essential and relevant information.
>>
>> 3. Set up a new Confluence space (maybe another domain) and move/copy
>> pages in #2 according to the doc set.
>>
>> 4. Create a small group with a practical schedule of dates for reviewing
>> inventory and keeping it as a public punch list (and ideally working to
>> make updates or do the housekeeping, but at the least identifying the needs
>> on a defined rhythm and in a known spot and announcing them).
>>
>>
>> The variation here is intended to meet the same goals (as I see them):
>>
>> 1. Identify the items that we (as experienced practitioners) wish were
>> well maintained and findable.
>>
>> 2. Segregate the old/unknown stuff from the much smaller, maintained
>> corpus, partitioned by release.
>>
>> 3. Support information seekers by reducing the ambiguity and improving
>> search results.
>>
>> 4. Support information maintainers by itemizing expectations we think the
>> community reasonably has and regularizing expectations on maintainers.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> -Noah
>>
>> On Apr 30, 2013, at 9:30 AM, Beth Kirschner wrote:
>>
>> > I'd like to add an agenda item regarding what to do about the Sakai
>> Confluence documentation. This continues to be a source of confusion,
>> wasted time and a barrier to adoption. We've talked about this at previous
>> Sakai conferences, but it hasn't gained any traction to my knowledge. I'd
>> like to restart the conversation prior to this years conference and work on
>> a proposal:
>> >
>> > 1) Scrap the current Confluence - move to a "legacy" space
>> > 2) Rebuild a new Confluence, pulling relevant pages from the legacy
>> space
>> > 3) Create a policy to keep these pages up-to-date
>> >
>> > I hope that many would be willing to contribute to this effort (myself
>> included), if we had a good point person. Neal would be willing to be this
>> point person if others are willing to split up the effort and
>> collaboratively work on a new space that meets the needs of the community.
>> >
>> > Thoughts?
>> > - Beth
>> >
>> > On Apr 30, 2013, at 8:49 AM, Neal Caidin <
>> nealcaidin at sakaifoundation.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Open meeting - non-TCC welcome to attend
>> >>
>> >> When: Wednesday, May 1 (tomorrow), 10 am Eastern Daylight/ 2 pm GMT
>> >>
>> >> Proposed Agenda:
>> >>
>> >> * CLE 2.9.2 status
>> >> * Acknowledgements (Institutional) for conference. Status and how to
>> move forward (level of detail/granularity; challenges of time [conference
>> almost here]; identifying quantity / quality, etc).  Trying to simplify
>> Acknowledgements so we can be ready for the conference. Still would be good
>> to identify special key contributions.
>> >> * Tools survey - time permitting. See below.
>> >> * Jira management - ongoing feedback requested on how CLECC can best
>> contribute to cleaning up/managing Jira.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> TCC, any agenda ideas?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Teleconference information (Calliflower)
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Default Dial-in Number:+1-323-375-2185
>> >>
>> >> Your Conference Code: 8600146
>> >>
>> >> Join Online:
>> >> http://www.calliflower.com
>> >>
>> >> Find a Dial in number in your city:
>> >> https://apps.calliflower.com/account/call_in_numbers?organizer=328940
>> >>
>> >> Skype:
>> >> Add ‘calliflowerskype’ as a contact in Skype.  You can then call
>> Calliflower directly from Skype.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Tools Survey idea
>> >> ---------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Tools Survey idea
>> >>
>> >> Potential goals of a tools survey:
>> >>
>> >> * Highlight tools that are available in Sakai CLE but which many in
>> the community might not be as aware of. For example, LTI.
>> >> * Get a sense of the impact of stealthing or removing the rWiki tool
>> >> * Identify potential institutions or individuals who have an interest
>> in helping maintain various tools (like rWiki, but could be other tools
>> that need attention as well)
>> >> * Make clear the status of the Gradebook 2 tool (my understanding is
>> that it is built on technology with incompatible licensing with CLE?)
>> >> * Make visible the requirements of the Assignments vs Assignments 2
>> tools.
>> >> * Get a sense of the use of Contrib tools. Again with the idea that
>> out of this might come some additional resources for development, as well
>> as helping to identify needs
>> >> * Get a sense of implicit, explicit or emerging requirements and needs
>> overall
>> >>
>> >> Or, as Steve Swinsburg says, maybe a simple survey will work for rWiki:
>> >>
>> >> "A simple survey would do here:
>> >> 1. Do you use the wiki (y/n)
>> >> 2. What so you use it for (options)
>> >> 3. If the wiki went away, how sad would you be (really sad, a bit sad,
>> meh, I'd just use another tool, I hate the wiki)"
>> >>
>> >> CLECC goal is to generate conversation and strategies for information
>> that would be helpful input to the TCC in decision making processes wrt
>> tool needs, and to get input from the community.
>> >>
>> >> Cheers,
>> >> Neal Caidin
>> >>
>> >> Sakai CLE Community Coordinator
>> >> nealcaidin at sakaifoundation.org
>> >> Skype: nealkdin
>> >> AIM: ncaidin at aol.com
>> >>
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