[sakai2-tcc] TCC Meeting at Sakai Conference [ was 'Annotation based injection within Sakai components']
Beth Kirschner
bkirschn at umich.edu
Fri May 18 07:11:10 PDT 2012
I agree that there were some discussions that were bogged down, but I think it would have been far worse without people tasked to keep us on schedule/topic. It sounds like we're in agreement on the need to keep have someone (or several people) manage the meeting.
- Beth
On May 18, 2012, at 10:06 AM, Aaron Zeckoski wrote:
> I was actually thinking we got bogged down on some topics for way too
> long last year and that we need to have someone who keeps things
> moving this time around. Maybe that was just my perception though.
>
> -AZ
>
>
> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:01 AM, Beth Kirschner <bkirschn at umich.edu> wrote:
>> Last year we had 'facilitators' for each topic on the agenda, and I think this went really well. Do we want to do this again? If so, should we ask for volunteers for each topic?
>>
>> - Beth
>>
>> On May 17, 2012, at 9:39 AM, Aaron Zeckoski wrote:
>>
>>> For everyone:
>>>
>>> Just an FYI that I am going to be adjusting the order to try to put it
>>> in order of priority (with the less contentious stuff being placed
>>> early in the agenda).
>>>
>>> If you disagree with my ordering then please feel free to yell at me
>>> on list (or hit me on IM) but do me a favor and don't just adjust it
>>> without talking to me (or you may find I keep on switching it back).
>>>
>>> -AZ
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 9:24 AM, Steve Swinsburg
>>> <steve.swinsburg at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Great, thanks Aaron. I've fleshed it out with everything that's been on my
>>>> mind. Can cull/review the list as req'd.
>>>>
>>>> cheers,
>>>> S
>>>>
>>>> On 17/05/2012, at 9:18 PM, Aaron Zeckoski wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I created a confluence page for the TCC conference meetings so please
>>>> feel free to go crazy with adding topics to the agenda. I put some of
>>>> these on there and I will leave it to others to flesh out the list
>>>> (for now anyway).
>>>>
>>>> https://confluence.sakaiproject.org/x/gIXSB
>>>>
>>>> -AZ
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 11:50 PM, Steve Swinsburg
>>>> <steve.swinsburg at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I go to sleep and this happens! We are a passionate bunch :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Chuck's list is good and I expect some healthy discussions and decisions to
>>>>
>>>> come out of the TCC meetings at the conference. Last year's discussions were
>>>>
>>>> great, we got real work done. Go us!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I would, however, really like to make some technology changes that allow us
>>>>
>>>> to move our stack into this decade *without* breaking everything.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Back to David's list:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1) Spring 3
>>>>
>>>> 2) Moving to the tomcat 6/7 classloader layout
>>>>
>>>> 3) Removal of deprecated API methods
>>>>
>>>> [4) anything I missed?]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Out of these what would be non breaking changes?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1. I haven't fully investigated yet but from the patch attached to KNL-517
>>>>
>>>> it looks like it is just dependencies. Are there any code changes?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2. Doable with the Sakai Maven plugin - reduces additional Tomcat config
>>>>
>>>> required. Tools that bind to newer versions of CLE would automatically be
>>>>
>>>> deployed that way, tools that bind to older releases would be deployed in
>>>>
>>>> the old layout. Backwards compatible.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 3. Depending on what this is it may be more disruptive. Risk mitigated
>>>>
>>>> somewhat by documenting how people move from one to another. I'm easily
>>>>
>>>> swung to *not* have this included and then contrib tools live happily ever
>>>>
>>>> after.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 4. Could be keeping our shared libraries up to date, which we are generally
>>>>
>>>> quite good at anyway. Maybe a review/cleanup.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I've just finished running a 10 week bootcamp course here and the top two
>>>>
>>>> feedback criticisms were that we had to use older versions of things when
>>>>
>>>> developing in Sakai, AND the tomcat restart issue. It would be nice if we
>>>>
>>>> could make that a bit easier for people without requiring a whole re-write.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 17/05/2012, at 5:52 AM, Nate Angell wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I wrote a Drupal module ;)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> = nate
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On May 16, 2012, at 12:03 PM, Charles Severance <csev at umich.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On May 16, 2012, at 11:48 AM, Matthew Jones wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, how long does it take a new developer who has never used Sakai
>>>>
>>>> Services before to write a new tool that integrates with
>>>>
>>>> assignment/gradebook/assessments/calendar/entitybroker.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My guess would easily be months. So this makes/keeps the development pool
>>>>
>>>> for Sakai small (a fixed ~10-15 devs?)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Matt - How many developers are waiting in the wings to work on the CLE where
>>>>
>>>> the ease of learning is the reason they are not coding? Zero. Lets not
>>>>
>>>> solve a problem we don't have and break all the contrib tools.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> OAE spent five years claiming to make it easier to have new developers write
>>>>
>>>> tools - they have made this a core theme of their design and have not
>>>>
>>>> achieved "easy to learn".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Facebook FBML is a mess and hard to learn...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Moodle Modules are a total pain.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Building Blocks ... Aargh. You pretty much need a mentor on the inside who
>>>>
>>>> looks at Bb source code when you get stuck.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> OLAT extension point is elegant but massively painful.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The simple answer is that none of these "internal" extension points work.
>>>>
>>>> It is silly to try to make Sakai CLE extensions "easy" by changing the
>>>>
>>>> kernel. No major LMS has produced an extension point that is both powerful
>>>>
>>>> and easy.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> LTI is easy. But not all-powerful.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> /Chuck
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> sakai2-tcc mailing list
>>>>
>>>> sakai2-tcc at collab.sakaiproject.org
>>>>
>>>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/sakai2-tcc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> sakai2-tcc mailing list
>>>>
>>>> sakai2-tcc at collab.sakaiproject.org
>>>>
>>>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/sakai2-tcc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> sakai2-tcc mailing list
>>>>
>>>> sakai2-tcc at collab.sakaiproject.org
>>>>
>>>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/sakai2-tcc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Aaron Zeckoski - Software Architect - http://tinyurl.com/azprofile
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>
>>>> From: Aaron Zeckoski <azeckoski at unicon.net>
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [sakai2-tcc] Annotation based injection within Sakai components
>>>>
>>>> Date: 17 May 2012 9:18:31 PM AEST
>>>>
>>>> To: Steve Swinsburg <steve.swinsburg at gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>> Cc: sakai2-tcc Committee <sakai2-tcc at collab.sakaiproject.org>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I created a confluence page for the TCC conference meetings so please
>>>> feel free to go crazy with adding topics to the agenda. I put some of
>>>> these on there and I will leave it to others to flesh out the list
>>>> (for now anyway).
>>>>
>>>> https://confluence.sakaiproject.org/x/gIXSB
>>>>
>>>> -AZ
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 11:50 PM, Steve Swinsburg
>>>> <steve.swinsburg at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I go to sleep and this happens! We are a passionate bunch :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Chuck's list is good and I expect some healthy discussions and decisions to
>>>>
>>>> come out of the TCC meetings at the conference. Last year's discussions were
>>>>
>>>> great, we got real work done. Go us!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I would, however, really like to make some technology changes that allow us
>>>>
>>>> to move our stack into this decade *without* breaking everything.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Back to David's list:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1) Spring 3
>>>>
>>>> 2) Moving to the tomcat 6/7 classloader layout
>>>>
>>>> 3) Removal of deprecated API methods
>>>>
>>>> [4) anything I missed?]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Out of these what would be non breaking changes?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1. I haven't fully investigated yet but from the patch attached to KNL-517
>>>>
>>>> it looks like it is just dependencies. Are there any code changes?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2. Doable with the Sakai Maven plugin - reduces additional Tomcat config
>>>>
>>>> required. Tools that bind to newer versions of CLE would automatically be
>>>>
>>>> deployed that way, tools that bind to older releases would be deployed in
>>>>
>>>> the old layout. Backwards compatible.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 3. Depending on what this is it may be more disruptive. Risk mitigated
>>>>
>>>> somewhat by documenting how people move from one to another. I'm easily
>>>>
>>>> swung to *not* have this included and then contrib tools live happily ever
>>>>
>>>> after.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 4. Could be keeping our shared libraries up to date, which we are generally
>>>>
>>>> quite good at anyway. Maybe a review/cleanup.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I've just finished running a 10 week bootcamp course here and the top two
>>>>
>>>> feedback criticisms were that we had to use older versions of things when
>>>>
>>>> developing in Sakai, AND the tomcat restart issue. It would be nice if we
>>>>
>>>> could make that a bit easier for people without requiring a whole re-write.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 17/05/2012, at 5:52 AM, Nate Angell wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I wrote a Drupal module ;)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> = nate
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On May 16, 2012, at 12:03 PM, Charles Severance <csev at umich.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On May 16, 2012, at 11:48 AM, Matthew Jones wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, how long does it take a new developer who has never used Sakai
>>>>
>>>> Services before to write a new tool that integrates with
>>>>
>>>> assignment/gradebook/assessments/calendar/entitybroker.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My guess would easily be months. So this makes/keeps the development pool
>>>>
>>>> for Sakai small (a fixed ~10-15 devs?)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Matt - How many developers are waiting in the wings to work on the CLE where
>>>>
>>>> the ease of learning is the reason they are not coding? Zero. Lets not
>>>>
>>>> solve a problem we don't have and break all the contrib tools.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> OAE spent five years claiming to make it easier to have new developers write
>>>>
>>>> tools - they have made this a core theme of their design and have not
>>>>
>>>> achieved "easy to learn".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Facebook FBML is a mess and hard to learn...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Moodle Modules are a total pain.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Building Blocks ... Aargh. You pretty much need a mentor on the inside who
>>>>
>>>> looks at Bb source code when you get stuck.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> OLAT extension point is elegant but massively painful.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The simple answer is that none of these "internal" extension points work.
>>>>
>>>> It is silly to try to make Sakai CLE extensions "easy" by changing the
>>>>
>>>> kernel. No major LMS has produced an extension point that is both powerful
>>>>
>>>> and easy.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> LTI is easy. But not all-powerful.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> /Chuck
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> sakai2-tcc mailing list
>>>>
>>>> sakai2-tcc at collab.sakaiproject.org
>>>>
>>>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/sakai2-tcc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> sakai2-tcc mailing list
>>>>
>>>> sakai2-tcc at collab.sakaiproject.org
>>>>
>>>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/sakai2-tcc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> sakai2-tcc mailing list
>>>>
>>>> sakai2-tcc at collab.sakaiproject.org
>>>>
>>>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/sakai2-tcc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Aaron Zeckoski - Software Architect - http://tinyurl.com/azprofile
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>
>>>> From: Aaron Zeckoski <azeckoski at unicon.net>
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [sakai2-tcc] Annotation based injection within Sakai components
>>>>
>>>> Date: 17 May 2012 9:18:31 PM AEST
>>>>
>>>> To: Steve Swinsburg <steve.swinsburg at gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>> Cc: sakai2-tcc Committee <sakai2-tcc at collab.sakaiproject.org>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I created a confluence page for the TCC conference meetings so please
>>>> feel free to go crazy with adding topics to the agenda. I put some of
>>>> these on there and I will leave it to others to flesh out the list
>>>> (for now anyway).
>>>>
>>>> https://confluence.sakaiproject.org/x/gIXSB
>>>>
>>>> -AZ
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 11:50 PM, Steve Swinsburg
>>>> <steve.swinsburg at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I go to sleep and this happens! We are a passionate bunch :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Chuck's list is good and I expect some healthy discussions and decisions to
>>>>
>>>> come out of the TCC meetings at the conference. Last year's discussions were
>>>>
>>>> great, we got real work done. Go us!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I would, however, really like to make some technology changes that allow us
>>>>
>>>> to move our stack into this decade *without* breaking everything.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Back to David's list:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1) Spring 3
>>>>
>>>> 2) Moving to the tomcat 6/7 classloader layout
>>>>
>>>> 3) Removal of deprecated API methods
>>>>
>>>> [4) anything I missed?]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Out of these what would be non breaking changes?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1. I haven't fully investigated yet but from the patch attached to KNL-517
>>>>
>>>> it looks like it is just dependencies. Are there any code changes?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2. Doable with the Sakai Maven plugin - reduces additional Tomcat config
>>>>
>>>> required. Tools that bind to newer versions of CLE would automatically be
>>>>
>>>> deployed that way, tools that bind to older releases would be deployed in
>>>>
>>>> the old layout. Backwards compatible.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 3. Depending on what this is it may be more disruptive. Risk mitigated
>>>>
>>>> somewhat by documenting how people move from one to another. I'm easily
>>>>
>>>> swung to *not* have this included and then contrib tools live happily ever
>>>>
>>>> after.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 4. Could be keeping our shared libraries up to date, which we are generally
>>>>
>>>> quite good at anyway. Maybe a review/cleanup.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I've just finished running a 10 week bootcamp course here and the top two
>>>>
>>>> feedback criticisms were that we had to use older versions of things when
>>>>
>>>> developing in Sakai, AND the tomcat restart issue. It would be nice if we
>>>>
>>>> could make that a bit easier for people without requiring a whole re-write.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 17/05/2012, at 5:52 AM, Nate Angell wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I wrote a Drupal module ;)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> = nate
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On May 16, 2012, at 12:03 PM, Charles Severance <csev at umich.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On May 16, 2012, at 11:48 AM, Matthew Jones wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, how long does it take a new developer who has never used Sakai
>>>>
>>>> Services before to write a new tool that integrates with
>>>>
>>>> assignment/gradebook/assessments/calendar/entitybroker.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My guess would easily be months. So this makes/keeps the development pool
>>>>
>>>> for Sakai small (a fixed ~10-15 devs?)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Matt - How many developers are waiting in the wings to work on the CLE where
>>>>
>>>> the ease of learning is the reason they are not coding? Zero. Lets not
>>>>
>>>> solve a problem we don't have and break all the contrib tools.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> OAE spent five years claiming to make it easier to have new developers write
>>>>
>>>> tools - they have made this a core theme of their design and have not
>>>>
>>>> achieved "easy to learn".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Facebook FBML is a mess and hard to learn...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Moodle Modules are a total pain.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Building Blocks ... Aargh. You pretty much need a mentor on the inside who
>>>>
>>>> looks at Bb source code when you get stuck.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> OLAT extension point is elegant but massively painful.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The simple answer is that none of these "internal" extension points work.
>>>>
>>>> It is silly to try to make Sakai CLE extensions "easy" by changing the
>>>>
>>>> kernel. No major LMS has produced an extension point that is both powerful
>>>>
>>>> and easy.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> LTI is easy. But not all-powerful.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> /Chuck
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> sakai2-tcc mailing list
>>>>
>>>> sakai2-tcc at collab.sakaiproject.org
>>>>
>>>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/sakai2-tcc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> sakai2-tcc mailing list
>>>>
>>>> sakai2-tcc at collab.sakaiproject.org
>>>>
>>>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/sakai2-tcc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> sakai2-tcc mailing list
>>>>
>>>> sakai2-tcc at collab.sakaiproject.org
>>>>
>>>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/sakai2-tcc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Aaron Zeckoski - Software Architect - http://tinyurl.com/azprofile
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>
>>>> From: Aaron Zeckoski <azeckoski at unicon.net>
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [sakai2-tcc] Annotation based injection within Sakai components
>>>>
>>>> Date: 17 May 2012 9:18:31 PM AEST
>>>>
>>>> To: Steve Swinsburg <steve.swinsburg at gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>> Cc: sakai2-tcc Committee <sakai2-tcc at collab.sakaiproject.org>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I created a confluence page for the TCC conference meetings so please
>>>> feel free to go crazy with adding topics to the agenda. I put some of
>>>> these on there and I will leave it to others to flesh out the list
>>>> (for now anyway).
>>>>
>>>> https://confluence.sakaiproject.org/x/gIXSB
>>>>
>>>> -AZ
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 11:50 PM, Steve Swinsburg
>>>> <steve.swinsburg at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I go to sleep and this happens! We are a passionate bunch :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Chuck's list is good and I expect some healthy discussions and decisions to
>>>>
>>>> come out of the TCC meetings at the conference. Last year's discussions were
>>>>
>>>> great, we got real work done. Go us!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I would, however, really like to make some technology changes that allow us
>>>>
>>>> to move our stack into this decade *without* breaking everything.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Back to David's list:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1) Spring 3
>>>>
>>>> 2) Moving to the tomcat 6/7 classloader layout
>>>>
>>>> 3) Removal of deprecated API methods
>>>>
>>>> [4) anything I missed?]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Out of these what would be non breaking changes?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1. I haven't fully investigated yet but from the patch attached to KNL-517
>>>>
>>>> it looks like it is just dependencies. Are there any code changes?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2. Doable with the Sakai Maven plugin - reduces additional Tomcat config
>>>>
>>>> required. Tools that bind to newer versions of CLE would automatically be
>>>>
>>>> deployed that way, tools that bind to older releases would be deployed in
>>>>
>>>> the old layout. Backwards compatible.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 3. Depending on what this is it may be more disruptive. Risk mitigated
>>>>
>>>> somewhat by documenting how people move from one to another. I'm easily
>>>>
>>>> swung to *not* have this included and then contrib tools live happily ever
>>>>
>>>> after.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 4. Could be keeping our shared libraries up to date, which we are generally
>>>>
>>>> quite good at anyway. Maybe a review/cleanup.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I've just finished running a 10 week bootcamp course here and the top two
>>>>
>>>> feedback criticisms were that we had to use older versions of things when
>>>>
>>>> developing in Sakai, AND the tomcat restart issue. It would be nice if we
>>>>
>>>> could make that a bit easier for people without requiring a whole re-write.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 17/05/2012, at 5:52 AM, Nate Angell wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I wrote a Drupal module ;)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> = nate
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On May 16, 2012, at 12:03 PM, Charles Severance <csev at umich.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On May 16, 2012, at 11:48 AM, Matthew Jones wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, how long does it take a new developer who has never used Sakai
>>>>
>>>> Services before to write a new tool that integrates with
>>>>
>>>> assignment/gradebook/assessments/calendar/entitybroker.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My guess would easily be months. So this makes/keeps the development pool
>>>>
>>>> for Sakai small (a fixed ~10-15 devs?)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Matt - How many developers are waiting in the wings to work on the CLE where
>>>>
>>>> the ease of learning is the reason they are not coding? Zero. Lets not
>>>>
>>>> solve a problem we don't have and break all the contrib tools.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> OAE spent five years claiming to make it easier to have new developers write
>>>>
>>>> tools - they have made this a core theme of their design and have not
>>>>
>>>> achieved "easy to learn".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Facebook FBML is a mess and hard to learn...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Moodle Modules are a total pain.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Building Blocks ... Aargh. You pretty much need a mentor on the inside who
>>>>
>>>> looks at Bb source code when you get stuck.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> OLAT extension point is elegant but massively painful.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The simple answer is that none of these "internal" extension points work.
>>>>
>>>> It is silly to try to make Sakai CLE extensions "easy" by changing the
>>>>
>>>> kernel. No major LMS has produced an extension point that is both powerful
>>>>
>>>> and easy.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> LTI is easy. But not all-powerful.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> /Chuck
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> sakai2-tcc mailing list
>>>>
>>>> sakai2-tcc at collab.sakaiproject.org
>>>>
>>>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/sakai2-tcc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> sakai2-tcc mailing list
>>>>
>>>> sakai2-tcc at collab.sakaiproject.org
>>>>
>>>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/sakai2-tcc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> sakai2-tcc mailing list
>>>>
>>>> sakai2-tcc at collab.sakaiproject.org
>>>>
>>>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/sakai2-tcc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Aaron Zeckoski - Software Architect - http://tinyurl.com/azprofile
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> sakai2-tcc mailing list
>>>> sakai2-tcc at collab.sakaiproject.org
>>>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/sakai2-tcc
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Aaron Zeckoski - Software Architect - http://tinyurl.com/azprofile
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sakai2-tcc mailing list
>>> sakai2-tcc at collab.sakaiproject.org
>>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/sakai2-tcc
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sakai2-tcc mailing list
>> sakai2-tcc at collab.sakaiproject.org
>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/sakai2-tcc
>
>
>
> --
> Aaron Zeckoski - Software Architect - http://tinyurl.com/azprofile
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