[Building Sakai] Sakai development estimate

Fri Feb 28 18:03:44 PST 2014

Hi Diego, All,

Thanks about that !
Too bad indeed the project is not used yet, absolute shame.. Unfortunately
it remains a sad fact about working as a developer, specially when it comes
to big applications (and big clients), excellent work that never gets
released .
It would be definitely helpful to have a contact @SAMOO Diego, thank you.
Six months development time seemed at the time like excessive, but I am by
nature kind of optimistic and if Steve and you share the same estimate, I
DO believe you !

So by now I guess the first step (after getting the last version of trunk
running of course) would be to test a call from a basic web app (PHP/HTML5)
to a Sakai web service, trying to get a course for exemple.
Do you know if the list of web services available will expand significantly
in Sakai X ?
Any good tool to test a web service in Sakai ?

Thank you... again !

Regards
Ben

On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 1:02 PM, Diego del Blanco Orobitg <
diego.delblanco.sakai at gmail.com> wrote:

> That's exactly what I was suggesting you to do.
>
> Yes, I was the designer and director of that project at Samoo. This was a
> great project and it has been really improved since that date.
>
> Project works and it's finished (or almost finished) but not in any real
> customer at this moment. Seems that hospitals doesn't want to provide these
> systems to their children... (A shame)
>
> You can view a video in youtube about it in a middle development stage:
> www.*youtube*.com/watch?v=1o5296xIqa8
>
> Really, this is a Sakai with all the strength of Sakai but it doesn't
> seems at all as a Sakai. Just what you want. At that moment that was a jsp
> application, not a mobile one. This that you are seeing in the video is
> html generated dynamically reading the Sakai restful services.
>
> I can tell you that doing all that work (and the next steps done after the
> video to create a real android app) needed about aprox 1 year and some
> months of work for a person (really less months but more than a person)
> because in these days there were much less restful services than now, so we
> needed to create a lot of them. But now it should be easier to create
> something like that. I think, if you are expert in that, 6 months as Steve
> said is not a crazy prediction.
>
> Now I'm not at Samoo (I'm at Asahi), so if you need info about that
> project I can't give to you (It's a company secret and they will kill me...
> joking ;) and you should ask to Samoo people for more details. They are
> very nice and they can help you.
>
> It's a shame this project couldn't be collaborated to the community.
>
> Best wishes.
>
>
>
> 2014-02-27 16:40 GMT-06:00 Benjamin Fouassier <b.fouassier at gmail.com>:
>
> Thanks !
>>
>> I have just came across this :
>> http://www.congres.upmc.fr/sakai2013/doc/papers/15_paper.pdf a project
>> for hospital by Spanish company Samoo.
>> Diego I think you were involved if not responsible in that one, does this
>> project came to life ?! That's really impressing. Except the mobile side of
>> the project (being responsive for all devices is anyway a huge bonus),
>> that's exactly that kind of implementation I am talking about :
>> A web app relying on Sakai to deliver functionality.
>> It brings a clean separation between the hosted instance of Sakai and the
>> application.
>> That's terrific.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 10:18 AM, Diego del Blanco Orobitg <
>> diego.delblanco.sakai at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I think for your needs Restful services or maybe Webservices are the
>>> best options. LTI can be used to integrations but in other way.  Look at
>>> the info of the Keitai project in Sakai (as you can see in the
>>> presentation) that is offering the right interface for these developments
>>> as the one you want to do.
>>>
>>> And yes, in this way you don't need to touch sakai code (or only a
>>> little to add new services, but not to change all the interface, that can
>>> become a nightmare!)
>>>
>>> Best wishes!
>>>
>>>
>>> 2014-02-26 20:09 GMT-06:00 Benjamin Fouassier <b.fouassier at gmail.com>:
>>>
>>> Hi Diego,
>>>>
>>>> That's a great lead actually, it would give me a total freedom for the
>>>> design with the ability to keep a clean version of Sakai, no struggling for
>>>> updates and everything.
>>>> I am not sure to see the difference between the use of LTI tool and
>>>> using the API restful services (maybe this
>>>> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1HB7PQCv8VlGtCvRei6-AF4BEt5voLh0oNx9nomL4ZRE/edit#slide=id.p7can help).
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Ben
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 3:40 PM, Neal Caidin <neal.caidin at apereo.org>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I understand Sakai is an LTI producer? Doesn't that mean one could
>>>>> theoretically use LTI to use the tools in Sakai of interest?
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Neal
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   Diego del Blanco Orobitg <diego.delblanco.sakai at gmail.com>
>>>>>  February 26, 2014 at 8:38 PM
>>>>> Benjamin, as you want to change so much things in the interface and
>>>>> you want to simplify functionality ... maybe it can be an option to use
>>>>> Sakai as "core" and then create a totally new application that calls Sakai
>>>>> with the restful services, as if you were creating a mobile app for Sakai,
>>>>> only with the tools and features you want from Sakai. So you could access
>>>>> directly Sakai to have the full features or access your application to have
>>>>> the reduced set of functionality.
>>>>>
>>>>> Only a idea...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> ***************************************
>>>>> *Diego del Blanco Orobitg*
>>>>> Spain & LATAM Regional Manager (*ANI Sakai*)
>>>>> Apereo LATAM Representative (*Apereo Foundation*)
>>>>>
>>>>> P: (+34) 653 683 489
>>>>> E: ddelblanco at anisakai.com
>>>>> Sk: ddelblanco.ani
>>>>> ***************************************
>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>> sakai-dev mailing list
>>>>> sakai-dev at collab.sakaiproject.org
>>>>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/sakai-dev
>>>>>
>>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to
>>>>> sakai-dev-unsubscribe at collab.sakaiproject.org with a subject of
>>>>> "unsubscribe"
>>>>>   Steve Swinsburg <steve.swinsburg at gmail.com>
>>>>>  February 26, 2014 at 6:42 PM
>>>>> Hi Benjamin,
>>>>>
>>>>> You certainly can drop functionality quite easily, and with eay
>>>>> upgrades,, just pick what you want to deploy and remove the rest from the
>>>>> build in the pom.xml modules section (then you can remove it from the svn
>>>>> externals). Note that some tools depend on others, generally for their API
>>>>> so its a bit of tweaking to get it right. Here is a cut down build that has
>>>>> the portal and a sprinkling of other tools, just to show how far you can
>>>>> cut it down:
>>>>> https://source.sakaiproject.org/svn//msub/anu.edu.au/services/2.8.x/
>>>>>
>>>>> For a new design, copy the portal vm templates to a new directory,
>>>>> then customise, and configure with the portal.templates sakai property
>>>>> (portal.templates=mynewportal). I'd try to leave the backbone code alone
>>>>> (SkinnableCharonPortal.java et al) as much as possible so upgrades are
>>>>> easier.
>>>>>
>>>>> The responsive design are a new set of portal templates so maybe take
>>>>> those and customise.
>>>>>
>>>>> cheers,
>>>>> Steve
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> sakai-dev mailing list
>>>>> sakai-dev at collab.sakaiproject.org
>>>>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/sakai-dev
>>>>>
>>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to
>>>>> sakai-dev-unsubscribe at collab.sakaiproject.org with a subject of
>>>>> "unsubscribe"
>>>>>   Benjamin Fouassier <b.fouassier at gmail.com>
>>>>>  February 26, 2014 at 6:33 PM
>>>>> Steve,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks a lot about the best workflow to start the project and
>>>>> deploying, my first try on a local environment on my machine was indeed not
>>>>> a walk in the park.
>>>>> I am going to have a closer look to all the new features in Sakai 10.
>>>>>
>>>>> To give you further details, here what I can say (specs are still in
>>>>> the making, and of course I cannot communicate a lot about this..) :
>>>>>
>>>>>  About the lessons aspect, I am afraid it concerns Sakai overall, and
>>>>> looking at the new designs, I think I can say that we want to drop the
>>>>> entire interface, change what a lesson is (organizing a student workspace
>>>>> into modules, each module containing for steps between learning and
>>>>> practicing).
>>>>> Basically we want to use a lot of Sakai features, drop a lot of
>>>>> useless (for this project) functionality, with a minimalist design and
>>>>> navigation.
>>>>> That would mean a real clean separation of the core with the
>>>>> presentation layer, being able to load only desired modules, and still
>>>>> being able to update Sakai..
>>>>> Sounds quite optimistic to say the least.
>>>>>
>>>>> Many thanks for your help.
>>>>> Benjamin
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> sakai-dev mailing list
>>>>> sakai-dev at collab.sakaiproject.org
>>>>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/sakai-dev
>>>>>
>>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to
>>>>> sakai-dev-unsubscribe at collab.sakaiproject.org with a subject of
>>>>> "unsubscribe"
>>>>>   Steve Swinsburg <steve.swinsburg at gmail.com>
>>>>>  February 26, 2014 at 5:45 PM
>>>>> Hi Benjamin,
>>>>>
>>>>> Without having fuller details, you'd be looking at a few months, maybe
>>>>> 4-6, and feasible for one developer.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can you elaborate on the lessons aspect, do you mean the lessons tool?
>>>>> Or Sakai overall? You mention navigation so I wasnt sure if that meant
>>>>> Sakai overall.
>>>>> For peer reviewing, would they be new tools or modifications to
>>>>> existing tools? If mods, which ones?
>>>>> For responsive design, there is a new portal and skin coming out of
>>>>> NYU that adds this, so you might be able to utilise that. It will be for
>>>>> Sakai 10.
>>>>> For localisation, what locale/language?
>>>>>
>>>>> You probably want to get the deployment right first, so you know how
>>>>> the build works and how things come together, then modify code and add bits
>>>>> and pieces. I'd allow a week or two to get the build/deployment process
>>>>> understood and bedded down and code modules figured out, then you could
>>>>> begin development on the features you were after.
>>>>>
>>>>> Depending on when you start, I would probably be using the Sakai 10
>>>>> branch so you can take advantage of the new features and save yourself some
>>>>> time. In 6 months the release will be well and truly nailed down so you'll
>>>>> be on a stable codebase. Keep up to date.
>>>>>
>>>>> cheers,
>>>>> Steve
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> sakai-dev mailing list
>>>>> sakai-dev at collab.sakaiproject.org
>>>>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/sakai-dev
>>>>>
>>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to
>>>>> sakai-dev-unsubscribe at collab.sakaiproject.org with a subject of
>>>>> "unsubscribe"
>>>>>   Benjamin Fouassier <b.fouassier at gmail.com>
>>>>>  February 26, 2014 at 4:53 PM
>>>>> Hi everybody,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am completely new to Sakai (and open source projects actually),
>>>>> beginner in Java (but advanced in OOP and design patterns using PHP and AS3
>>>>> with FLEX framework) and would like to have your opinion about a Sakai
>>>>> project implementation in terms of time estimate and feasibility.
>>>>> Without giving too much details, here are the main steps :
>>>>>
>>>>> - Deploy Sakai from the current trunk on a "classic" hosting platform
>>>>> (that validates the requirement Java / Tomcat / etc..) to validate the
>>>>> process of installation / deployment.
>>>>> - Changing completely the presentation layer, including the way
>>>>> lessons are visually represented as the menu to simplify a lot the
>>>>> navigation.
>>>>> - Extend/create some modules to add features in terms of sharing/peer
>>>>> reviewing
>>>>> - Responsive design
>>>>> - Localization
>>>>> - Deploy the final version on a cloud based environment such as AWS
>>>>>
>>>>> A rough estimate would be useful to know if this can be done within a
>>>>> couple of months, by a single developer, or this isn't realistic at all.
>>>>>
>>>>> Although from your experience, what do you think is the best way to
>>>>> get the development going, to start from the last release stable version
>>>>> and don't update or keep the code up to date with the last improvements
>>>>> committed in trunk ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Ultimately I would be glad to have your general opinion about this
>>>>> kind of sakai development.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you all for your help.
>>>>> Benjamin
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> sakai-dev mailing list
>>>>> sakai-dev at collab.sakaiproject.org
>>>>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/sakai-dev
>>>>>
>>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to
>>>>> sakai-dev-unsubscribe at collab.sakaiproject.org with a subject of
>>>>> "unsubscribe"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Neal Caidin
>>>>> Sakai Community Coordinator
>>>>> Apereo Foundation
>>>>> neal.caidin at apereo.org
>>>>> Skype me! (but let me know in advance for the first interaction) -
>>>>> nealkdin
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> sakai-dev mailing list
>>>>> sakai-dev at collab.sakaiproject.org
>>>>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/sakai-dev
>>>>>
>>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to
>>>>> sakai-dev-unsubscribe at collab.sakaiproject.org with a subject of
>>>>> "unsubscribe"
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ***************************************
>>> *Diego del Blanco Orobitg*
>>> Spain & LATAM Regional Manager (*ANI Sakai*)
>>> Apereo LATAM Representative (*Apereo Foundation*)
>>>
>>> P: (+34) 653 683 489
>>> E: ddelblanco at anisakai.com
>>> Sk: ddelblanco.ani
>>> ***************************************
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> ***************************************
> *Diego del Blanco Orobitg*
> Spain & LATAM Regional Manager (*ANI Sakai*)
> Apereo LATAM Representative (*Apereo Foundation*)
>
> P: (+34) 653 683 489
> E: ddelblanco at anisakai.com
> Sk: ddelblanco.ani
> ***************************************
>
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