[Building Sakai] A Sensitive Subject

Mon Oct 15 14:19:15 PDT 2012

Right, but it 's a recommendation and not a requirement.  Until it's a
requirement, referring to a table in opposite case in a conversion script
should be marked as a release blocker.

The argument against making it a requirement: we have enough requirements
to run CLE.  We actually were able to drop two previously-required
JAVA_OPTS from 2.8 to 2.9 so are headed in the right direction of making
CLE easier to run.

Why can't some institutions easily change a database property?  Because
they run central DB servers managed by DBAs and lowercase table names can't
be set on a per-database level.

--Sam

On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 5:07 PM, Steve Swinsburg
<steve.swinsburg at gmail.com>wrote:

> No, its more like you are running a setup that is the opposite of what is
> recommended in the admin guide, and you hope that developers cater for your
> needs. Sorry, but this is the same as running an unsupported piece of
> software. The chat2_channel table is classic example of why we should not
> be supporting case sensitivity. Someone should be able to write some SQL
> without having to worry about getting the case of every letter correct. One
> look at the conversion scripts shows this as well, some upper, some lower.
>
> Many other projects are the same as this, uPortal for example [1] where
> the recommendation is to set up the db for lowercase table names, to avoid:
> 1. Difficulties moving between platforms.
> 2. Worrying about case in handwritten SQL.
>
> Like Matt said, the QA servers are setup so this has generally been
> caught, but you really can't argue with a recommendation thats been there
> since 2007.
>
> cheers,
> Steve
>
> On 15/10/2012, at 8:59 PM, Stephen Marquard <stephen.marquard at uct.ac.za>
> wrote:
>
> > This statement translates to: "we don't care enough to require
> developers not to break Sakai production installations by introducing
> arbitrary and unnecessary inconsistencies".
> >
> > I would hope that the project's technical leadership could set a higher
> bar than this.
> >
> > Regards
> > Stephen
> >
> > Stephen Marquard, Learning Technologies Co-ordinator
> > Centre for Educational Technology, University of Cape Town
> > http://www.cet.uct.ac.za
> > Email/IM/XMPP: stephen.marquard at uct.ac.za
> > Phone: +27-21-650-5037 Cell: +27-83-500-5290
> >
> >
> >>>> Steve Swinsburg <steve.swinsburg at gmail.com> 10/15/2012 11:25 AM >>>
> > That part of the db guide has been around since 2007. I don't think
> either case sensitivity or case insensitivity was ever discussed, but it
> because the defacto standard.
> > I'm not suggesting you need to change anything, if it works as is then
> that's fine, but if the recommendation is to set the db as case
> insensitive, then I wouldn't be surprise to see mixed case SQL.
> >
> > cheers,
> > S
> >
> > On 15/10/2012, at 7:23 PM, David Horwitz <david.horwitz at uct.ac.za>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Steve,
> >>
> >> By the same token abandoning case support case sensitivity has never
> been properly discussed or decided on by those of us who’ve been running
> mysql on *nix since before this was added to the setup script. Changes to
> production database configuration are something we are extremely loathe to
> do without good reason ...
> >>
> >> D
> >> On 10/15/2012 10:19 AM, Steve Swinsburg wrote:
> >>> Nowhere is it stated that the case of SQL needs to be maintained.
> >>> It is true that if you are running a case sensitive database then you
> might have issues, which is why its recommended not to run a case sensitive
> database.
> >>>
> >>>
> https://confluence.sakaiproject.org/display/DOC/Sakai+Admin+Guide+-+Database+Configuration+and+Tuning
> >>>
> >>> Also, have a look at the chat2_channel table for some mixed case
> mayhem.
> >>>
> >>> cheers,
> >>> Steve
> >>>
> >>> On 15/10/2012, at 6:09 PM, Stephen Marquard <
> stephen.marquard at uct.ac.za> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I have to disagree with that ("there is no standard case enforced").
> >>>> Sites running databases with case-sensitive table names (as we are)
> >>>> would take a dim view of any changes checked in that referred to
> >>>> existing tables with different case, as it basically would not work.
> >>>> Developers are required to use the same case for table names as the
> >>>> table names were set up with (in the DDL SQL or hibernate config).
> >>>>
> >>>> Cheers
> >>>> Stephen
> >>>>
> >>>> Stephen Marquard, Learning Technologies Co-ordinator
> >>>> Centre for Educational Technology, University of Cape Town
> >>>> http://www.cet.uct.ac.za
> >>>> Email/IM/XMPP: stephen.marquard at uct.ac.za
> >>>> Phone: +27-21-650-5037 Cell: +27-83-500-5290
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>> Steve Swinsburg <steve.swinsburg at gmail.com> 10/15/2012 1:18 AM >>>
> >>>> And there is no standard case enforced when referring to the same
> >>>> tables or
> >>>> columns, ie SAKAI_USER, sakai_user for example.
> >>>>
> >>>> Bottom line, set your db up to be case insensitive.
> >>>>
> >>>> cheers,
> >>>> Steve
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 3:44 AM, David Horwitz
> >>>> <david.horwitz at uct.ac.za>wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> One way of putting is:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "Sakai does not require case sensitive table names but all scripts
> >>>> and
> >>>>> code should assume that it may be running on a database that is case
> >>>>> sensitive"
> >>>>>
> >>>>> D
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 10/12/2012 04:04 PM, Matthew Jones wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If you're running Mysql on Non-OSX UNIX, then by default the table
> >>>> names
> >>>>> are case sensitive.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In the admin guide we recommend altering the Mysql configuration so
> >>>> it
> >>>>> isn't case sensitive which is the default value for OSX and Windows
> >>>> (
> >>>>
> https://confluence.sakaiproject.org/display/DOC/Sakai+Admin+Guide+-+Database+Configuration+and+Tuning
> )
> >>>>> but it should work either way. All hard coded queries, conversion
> >>>> scripts
> >>>>> as well as Mysql QA servers are set to be case sensitive
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 9:56 AM, Mark J. Norton
> >>>> <markjnorton at earthlink.net
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>> Does Sakai require database table names to be case sensitive?  I
> >>>> don't
> >>>>>> seem to recall anything about this in the database set-up of the
> >>>> install
> >>>>>> instructions.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> - Mark Norton
> >>>>>>
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