[Building Sakai] Moodle export/import suitability for Sakai 3

Fri Sep 18 14:02:39 PDT 2009

Yes, Lance's question is different and, as I think John is saying  
below, it is worth examining Sakai 3 -> Sakai 3, Sakai 2 -> Sakai 3  
and Sakai 3 <-> IMS CC at the same time. They is likely to be  common  
infrastructure to generating/consuming each of these formats and it  
would be good to have a design that takes these into account even if  
we don't implement them all immediately.

Also, I've talked in the past with Moodle folks about a Sakai <->  
Moodle interchange format that would capture more information than CC  
does (a set of unofficial extensions to CC perhaps). There was  
interest in this as a way to cooperate. We have a fair bit of work to  
do, though, before we tackle that.

Cheers,

Michael

On Sep 19, 2009, at 03:51, John Norman wrote:

> I agree that IMS CC looks like the way to go for system-to-system
> transfer of a course.
>
> Lance's question was different though (if I understand correctly). He
> was asking whether there is an existing format that would be good for
> a system migration use case from Sakai 2 to Sakai 3. Whether IMS CC is
> complete enough depends a lot on how much you expect to be preserved
> in the transfer. With a custom development it intuitively seems likely
> that we could preserve more than is possible in a standard designed to
> permit transfer between different suppliers systems or distribution of
> a publisher's idea of a complete course.
>
> So far, I think it is looking like there would be no existing format
> that could give a high fidelity transfer experience. If that is true,
> the choice might be IMS CC for a basic transfer experience, a custom
> solution, or an investment in a special profile of IMS CC.
>
> My view on these options would be:
> 1. IMS CC - we will probably want it anyway for other use cases. IF it
> is good enough, there is a lot to be gained from just using it.
> 2. May be quickest, depending on how useful IMS CC is as a starting
> point
> 3. A special profile might be worth it if the work/learning made [1]
> easier and if IMS CC is a good starting point
>
> John
>
> On 18 Sep 2009, at 14:24, Adam Marshall wrote:
>
>> ims cc would seem the sensible way to go.
>>
>> adam
>>
>> From: sakai-dev-bounces at collab.sakaiproject.org [mailto:sakai-dev- 
>> bounces at collab.sakaiproject.org
>> ] On Behalf Of Michael Feldstein
>> Sent: 18 September 2009 14:00
>> To: John Norman
>> Cc: sakai-dev List
>> Subject: Re: [Building Sakai] Moodle export/import suitability for
>> Sakai 3
>>
>> For the cross-system use cases, I would lean heavily toward IMS
>> Common Cartridge, not because it's technically better than the
>> alternatives (I have no idea if it is or not), but because some of
>> the bigger players are putting resources into developing support for
>> it, which means it has a better chance of being a successful
>> exchange format. D2L has announced that they support CC (import only
>> at the moment), Blackboard (via Ray Henderson) has committed to full
>> import and export of CC, it's on the road map for Moodle 2.0, and
>> Pearson has been throwing resources into it.
>>
>> - m
>>
>>
>> John Norman wrote:
>> Sean set me on a different line of thinking. Who would we be building
>> export/import for?
>>
>> Institution:
>> - as part of a year to year migration (export key elements from this
>> years course and reimport them to set up the outline of next years
>> course). This feels like we could/should handle it better with some
>> other solution
>> - as part of a migration from one system to another. In this case we
>> care about matching to the other system. This was in my mind when I
>> suggested we should look at Moodle, Bb and CC formats
>> - as part of a sharing initiative. Something like opencourseware, but
>> where the intent is that the visitor can download and use the course
>> in their system
>>
>> Publisher:
>> - as a way of publishing a 'pre-canned' course to multiple
>> institutions running multiple systems (our interest is primarily
>> import, but see below)
>> Individual
>> - as a way of 'taking their course with them' as they move from
>> institution to institution
>> - as a way of 'adopting' a course created by someone else at a
>> different institution (here the individual sharing is in a similar
>> position to the publisher above)
>>
>> Other???
>>
>> It strikes me that the amount and nature of what needs to move  
>> changes
>> according to circumstance. It might be worth describing which
>> scenarios we feel it is important to support.
>>
>> John
>>
>> On 17 Sep 2009, at 07:26, John Norman wrote:
>>
>>
>> Several thoughts here. You don't say so, but I hope we are talking
>> about Moodle as an export option (alongside IMS Course Cartridge and
>> Native). I would hate to think we would loose information
>> transferring from one Sakai to another because we use an export
>> format that does not contain all of our concepts. Then in
>> contemplating secondary formats for interchange with other systems,
>> we need to consider how stable/how fast they change and the
>> maintenance burden.
>>
>> I suspect it would be a lot of work, but it would be great to have a
>> comparison that compared Bb export formats with Moodle with CC. I
>> wonder if the IMS folk have this..?
>>
>> John
>>
>> On 16 Sep 2009, at 21:35, Speelmon, Lance Day wrote:
>>
>>
>> I could use a second pair of eyes on the Moodle backup format.  I
>> managed to get the latest build of Moodle up and running and then
>> created a sample backup zip file.  We are trying to determine
>> suitability of their format as an export/import format for Sakai
>> 3.  Grab the sample below and provide any feedback you have on the
>> wiki page.  Thanks, L
>>
>> http://confluence.sakaiproject.org//x/ERLtAw
>>
>>
>> Lance Speelmon
>> Scholarly Technologist
>>
>> On Aug 17, 2009, at 4:53 PM, Speelmon, Lance Day wrote:
>>
>>
>> As we prepare to start working on a Sakai 2 -> Sakai 3 migration
>> effort, I would like to help organize community contributions.
>> There are a number of roles and skills that need to be filled and
>> your participation would be highly valued.
>>
>> What can be done immediately:
>>
>> 1) Collaborate on defining the migration project plan.
>> 2) Investigate LTI as an underlying mechanism for exposing Sakai 2
>> tools within the Saki 3 portal.
>> 3) Investigate Moodle's export/import architecture and file formats.
>> 4) Develop a Sakai 2 Resources (i.e. ContentHosting) to Sakai 3
>> JCR data conversion.
>>
>> If any of these tasks sound interesting or you have other ideas
>> you would like to share, please use the wiki space below.  Please
>> take the time to declare your area of interest on the Contributors
>> page.
>>
>> http://confluence.sakaiproject.org/display/KERNDOC/Migration
>>
>> Thanks!  L
>>
>>
>> Lance Speelmon
>> Scholarly Technologist
>>
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>> -- 
>>
>>
>> <image001.gif>
>> Michael Feldstein | Principal Product Manager | +1.818.817.2925
>> Oracle Academic Enterprise Solutions Group
>> 23A Glendale Road, Glendale, MA 01229
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-- 
Michael Korcuska
Executive Director, Sakai Foundation
mkorcuska at sakaifoundation.org
phone: +1 510-859-4247 (google voice)
skype: mkorcuska