[Portfolio] Question about SAK-15822
Beth Kirschner
bkirschn at umich.edu
Thu Mar 12 12:24:00 PDT 2009
Lynn,
I guess I'm still not clear on why setting the initial status wouldn't
work for your use case, unless you're saying that instructors may not
know they want to change the status to pending until later? I agree
that the 'change status for all users' definitely does have unexpected
behavior (in fact, I stumbled on the same issue when looking into a
solution for Sabanci).
Noah and I were just discussing an option that brings the two
proposals together -- what do folks think of this:
(1) Add the ability to set the initial status of a cell to
"Pending" (and maybe "Complete") when defining a matrix.
(2) When selecting "Change Status... for all users", also change the
initial status of the cell. This removes any concerns for performance.
(3) While you're at it, you might also consider fixing http://bugs.sakaiproject.org/jira/browse/SAK-13935
(set the default to "For this user only", instead of nothing).
Thoughts?
- Beth
On Mar 11, 2009, at 3:15 PM, Ward, Lynn E. wrote:
> Although I can see the potential value of an initial pending state,
> that’s not quite what we need at the moment. We’ve got a situation
> in which students are submitting assignments that are linked to
> program matrices. Some instructors in the program may also ask
> their students to interact with particular cells in the matrix
> directly. Anyway, the evaluators for the cells with the linked
> assignments would like to be able to convert all of the cells to
> pending at one time so they can add evaluations to these cells. The
> problems is that a matrix can contain a linked assignment without
> having been instantiated by the student, so those cells don’t
> convert to pending. I imagine we can solve this problem by
> checking to see if the users has any linked assignments in the cell
> before executing the command.
>
> Sabanci University provides another possible use case. They want to
> evaluate even though students haven’t uploaded or submitted. Having
> the ability to convert a specific cells to pending for all users
> would make it possible to push those cells to the evaluations tool
> for evaluators to complete their work. An initial status of pending
> might work for them, but the ability to control which cells are
> evaluated when might be preferable.
>
> Also, I doubt anyone but the developers would understand why, when
> you select “change status for all users,” you don’t see a
> corresponding status change in every user’s matrix. Until recently,
> I had no idea that the matrix wasn’t created until eh owner touched
> it. So, I simply thought the command was broken. At the very
> least, the radio button label and the alert text should be changed
> to something like “for all active users”
>
> Lynn
>
> ==========================
> Lynn Ward, Principal Systems Analyst, Community Source Collaboration
> and Learning
> University Information Technology Services
> Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis
> Information Technology and Communications Complex (IT 218S)
> 535 West Michigan Street, Indianapolis, IN 46202
> Phone: 317-278-5713 E-mail: leward at iupui.edu
>
> From: Maurer, Christopher Wayne
> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 1:13 PM
> To: Beth Kirschner; Ward, Lynn E.
> Cc: osp
> Subject: Re: [Portfolio] Question about SAK-15822
>
> Well, I can’t really make that determination. That’d be up to Lynn
> and all the other functional folks...
>
> Chris
>
>
> On 3/11/09 9:40 AM, "Beth Kirschner" <bkirschn at umich.edu> wrote:
> It seems that the behavior that is really desired is not to change the
> way 'Manage Status' works for all users, but to allow an initial
> status of "Pending" in addition to "Ready" and "Locked".
>
> - Beth
>
> On Mar 10, 2009, at 2:31 PM, Holladay, Bryan Andrew wrote:
>
> > I would not advise calling this bulk creation of user’s matrices
> > after creating the matrix, for this will guarantee a slowdown. I
> > believe if you trigger this only in the case where someone is
> > changing the status of a cell and there are missing user matrices,
> > then this off case wouldn’t have a big impact since the majority of
> > the use cases will not be a complete bulk update (just picking up
> > stragglers like new users)
> >
> > Bryan
> >
> >
> > On 3/10/09 2:29 PM, "Maurer, Christopher Wayne" <chmaurer at iupui.edu>
> > wrote:
> >
> > That is correct.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> > On 3/10/09 2:25 PM, "Sean Keesler" <sean at keesler.org> wrote:
> >
> > Seems to me that this would be a time consuming operation *just
> > once* (when the matrix is published and all the user instances are
> > created) and that the performance after that would be no different
> > than if everyone had actually used the matrix.
> >
> > Sean
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 1:53 PM, janice.smith <janice.smith at threecanoes.com
> > > wrote:
> > Hi Chris
> >
> > I have not followed all the details of this discussion, but I can
> > tell you from experience that performance issues with OSP can
> > literally shut down an instance of Sakai. If we have the choice
> > between creating something that dramatically complicates performance
> > and something that does not, I will choose the less complicated
> > option every time. So far the big performance problems have been
> > with the wizard. If the matrix starts generating performance
> > problems (which it has not to date), there will be serious
> > consequences for portfolio implementations. Also as an FYI, at many
> > institutions, only some of the users in portfolio sites actually use
> > the matrix.
> >
> > Janice
> >
> > Janice A. Smith, Ph.D.
> > Three Canoes Consulting
> > 1204 Laurel Avenue
> > Saint Paul, Minnesota 55104, USA
> > 651-642-9069
> > 207-841-6262 (cell)
> > janice.smith at threecanoes.com
> > jasmith at mm.com
> >
> >
> > ---- On Tue, 10 Mar 2009 10:38:28 -0700 Christopher Wayne Maurer <chmaurer at iupui.edu
> > > wrote ----
> >
> > http://bugs.sakaiproject.org/jira/browse/SAK-15822
> >
> > As a brief summary, the “manage status for all users” functionality
> > will only work if the user has visited the matrix in question (and
> > generated the actual data).
> >
> > What do people think about having this trigger the creation of
> > matrix data first?
> >
> > My biggest concern is the performance of creating all that data (if
> > it doesn’t exist). I would expect that the normal use case here is
> > that most users will have interacted with their matrix by this
> point.
> > But, in practice this may not be the case. I can obviously create
> > a site with 1000 users, create a matrix, and immediately change the
> > status for all users (not the same as changing the cell’s initial
> > status). This action will create all 1000 user matrices (well, 999
> > since the author just went to the matrix).
> >
> > The case that isn’t covered (and I think that it’s okay not to
> > worry about it) is when all the statuses have been changed and a
> > user is added to the site.
> >
> > So, what do people think about this bulk creation?
> >
> > Chris
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