[DG: Teaching & Learning] [DG: User Experience] Wiki's and Sakai
Christopher D. Coppola
chris.coppola at rsmart.com
Mon Apr 6 08:19:57 PDT 2009
I agree that the ideal path is a core capability and perhaps
backporting is an option. I was just thinking perhaps as a 2.x stopgap
integration might be worth cosidering. I'm not in favor of it or
against it... I was just throwing out the idea.
Google docs integration is probably valuable in either case. I've
become less of a fan of Confluence for non-technical users.
/chris
--
rSmart
Chris Coppola | 602.490.0472
blog: coppola.rsmart.com
On Apr 6, 2009, at 2:18 AM, Michael Korcuska wrote:
> I guess I'd much rather see the work that is already happening in
> "3akai" on content authoring be back-ported to 2.x. This keeps
> everyone in Sakai working with similar technology and potentially
> sets a much easier transition path from 2.x to 3.0 for users.
>
> And if someone wanted to pursue the integration path wouldn't Google
> docs or Confluence be more appealing?
>
> Michael
>
> On Apr 3, 2009, at 21:56, Christopher D. Coppola wrote:
>
>> Interesting conversation. Nate Angell and I were talking about this
>> the other day and agree that these are the desirable
>> characteristics. There's a screen cast of a product called
>> Mindtouch Deki that I think demonstrates these essential elements.
>> They stay away from calling their product (which is open source) a
>> wiki. It doesn't use wiki text, it uses standards compliant xhtml.
>> Check out the screencast: http://www.mindtouch.com/
>>
>> Another potential solution at least for the 2.x branch that we've
>> been talking about is to integrate with an existing product like
>> this. Anyone else thinking about that?
>>
>> /chris
>> --
>> rSmart
>> Chris Coppola | 602.490.0472
>> blog: coppola.rsmart.com
>>
>> On Apr 3, 2009, at 12:07 PM, John Ansorge wrote:
>>
>>> I completely agree that the Sakai 3 content authoring shows great
>>> promise and it would be great to see a little bit of that
>>> functionality function in 2.x.
>>>
>>> While wiki syntax can be useful, I think for most student and
>>> faculty needs WYSIWYG is far more desirable. I think what most of
>>> our instructors/students are looking for in the wiki is this:
>>> simple versioning/rollback
>>> WYSIWYG
>>> easy page generation and page linking
>>> basic level of access control (group-aware would be great, but
>>> role-based is ok, too)
>>> That's enough to allow group collaboration on a project in the
>>> wiki tool without needing to know wiki markup. The current wiki
>>> is close, but I don't think we should underestimate the learning
>>> curve that wiki-markup presents for many users. It's really easy
>>> for a typo or small formatting mistake to mess up an entire page
>>> when we leave it to humans to generate markup code.
>>>
>>> John Norman wrote:
>>>>
>>>> FWIW we see the content authoring solution planned for Sakai 3 as
>>>> combining the best of both worlds for site creation and wiki
>>>> pages. We
>>>> haven't quite figured out what the UX should be to separate out
>>>> 'wiki'
>>>> use of authoring (i.e. students can edit pages) from 'content
>>>> management' use of authoring (site owners - faculty - can edit
>>>> pages),
>>>> but the technology is there.
>>>>
>>>> So there are (at least) two options for a collaborative project:
>>>> 1. Fix up the nearly done work that exists (should be a small task)
>>>> 2. Introduce the content authoring paradigm into the Sakai 2
>>>> roadmap.
>>>> Mostly working, a step towards Sakai 3, but with a larger QA load
>>>> and
>>>> requiring JCR to be active in the deployment.
>>>>
>>>> Michael's Sakai 3 demo (running on Sakai 2.5/K1) shows what this
>>>> intermediate solution might look like (focus on the 'create new web
>>>> page' parts and imagine you give your students permission to do
>>>> this).
>>>> There would almost certainly need to be some UX work to make this
>>>> work
>>>> well for a combined 'content management' and 'wiki' scenario.
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> On 2 Apr 2009, at 01:37, Hardman, Gloria wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hello all
>>>>>
>>>>> Our faculty have generally found the Wiki too difficult as
>>>>> well. A
>>>>> few have done wonders with it and their students participated with
>>>>> enthusiasm. For most, it is too much effort to figure it all
>>>>> out.
>>>>>
>>>>> For those who have used more user-friendly Wiki software it is
>>>>> hard
>>>>> to understand why we can't offer a more user-friendly solution.
>>>>>
>>>>> We were also hoping for a better editor in 2.6.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> All the best
>>>>>
>>>>> Gloria
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/1/09 4:59 PM, "May, Megan Marie" <mmmay at indiana.edu> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>> Here at IU we're disappointed that the WYSIWYG editing
>>>>> capabilities
>>>>> aren't going to make the 2.6.0 release (see message below for the
>>>>> announcement/rationale). We've found that faculty try the wiki
>>>>> in Sakai but end up switching to free and inexpensive hosted
>>>>> solutions because they are so much easier to use. Obviously, the
>>>>> wysiwyg would greatly improve the user experience but it wouldn't
>>>>> resolve the 'ease of use' issues we're hearing about. This has
>>>>> made
>>>>> us wonder if it might be wise to explore other options, like
>>>>> integration with existing wiki applications.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do other institutions receive similar feedback? Has anyone
>>>>> looked
>>>>> into integrating Sakai with a different wiki solution?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Megan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Pete Peterson [mailto:plpeterson at ucdavis.edu]
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 4:45 PM
>>>>> To: 'Sakai Developers'; 'Sakai QA'; production at collab.sakaiproject.org
>>>>> Cc: Michael Korcuska; Knoop, Peter; Anthony Whyte; Pete Peterson;
>>>>> May, Megan Marie; Stephen Swinsburg; David Horwitz
>>>>> Subject: Important information about Sakai 2.6.0 and the rWiki
>>>>> tool
>>>>>
>>>>> Greetings Sakai Community,
>>>>>
>>>>> We have been unable to resolve a number of issues with the 2.6
>>>>> rwiki
>>>>> code, centered around the WYSIWYG editing capabilities and data
>>>>> loss
>>>>> under certain conditions. At this point in the release cycle we
>>>>> are
>>>>> opting to replace it with the 2.5.x version of rwiki, making the
>>>>> necessary changes to make it compatible with the 2.6 codebase. We
>>>>> are also re-applying some of the minor fixes and improvements
>>>>> intended for the 2.6 version of rwiki to the 2.5.x-based version
>>>>> (see SAK-15866 <http://jira.sakaiproject.org/jira/browse/
>>>>> SAK-15866><http://jira.sakaiproject.org/jira/browse/SAK-15866
>>>>>
>>>>>> for more details).
>>>>>>
>>>>> Summary
>>>>> * We have rolled the rwiki code back to the 2.5 version
>>>>> which
>>>>> has proven stable in many production instances.
>>>>>
>>>>> · Many of the updated rwiki features that are present in
>>>>> trunk/ the original 2.6 version, have been merged back into this
>>>>> version. Details of this effort can be viewed at SAK-15866 <http://jira.sakaiproject.org/jira/browse/SAK-15866
>>>>>
>>>>>> <http://jira.sakaiproject.org/jira/browse/SAK-15866> (many
>>>>>> thanks
>>>>>>
>>>>> to Steve Swinsburg for his work on this issue).
>>>>>
>>>>> * This new hybrid-rwiki has been tested and seems to work
>>>>> as
>>>>> expected.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> With regards to the WYSIWYG editing capabilities for rwiki
>>>>> scheduled
>>>>> for inclusion in Sakai 2.6 (SAK-8535 <http://jira.sakaiproject.org/jira/browse/SAK-8535
>>>>>
>>>>>> <http://jira.sakaiproject.org/jira/browse/SAK-8535> ), we will
>>>>>>
>>>>> continue explore options for implementing such functionality at a
>>>>> later time. This is an oft requested features, so if you are
>>>>> interested in helping us explore and implement possible solutions,
>>>>> please contact Peter Knoop <mailto:knoop at umich.edu><mailto:knoop at umich.edu
>>>>>
>>>>>> , Sakai Project Coordinator.
>>>>>>
>>>>> If you have any questions, comments or suggestions please send
>>>>> them
>>>>> to us by 3/31/2009.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for your time and support,
>>>>>
>>>>> Pete Peterson
>>>>> QA Director, Sakai Foundation
>>>>> plpeterson at ucdavis.edu
>>>>> Phone: +1-530-754-7259
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>
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>
> --
> Michael Korcuska
> Executive Director, Sakai Foundation
> mkorcuska at sakaifoundation.org
> phone: +1 510-931-6559
> mobile (US): +1 510-599-2586
> skype: mkorcuska
>
>
>
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