[WG: Accessibility] Accessibility] Opinion requested regarding the severity of an accessibility issue in Sakai 2x

Thu Feb 4 09:03:54 PST 2010

I'd argue that the example given by themaninblue.com is any further of a change in behavior than the JavaScript attached to the onChange event already represents. To me, the expected behavior would be that I can scroll through the select-element's values without having an action take place. It is already a pretty common interaction model on the web to press enter on a control that has focus to activate it.

I like the interaction model presented by the example in themaninblue.com, it was the direction that I was coding up in JavaScript myself as a solution. The user can still use the alt+down arrow, and simply doesn't have to. Also, I love that it codes the behavior for the escape key as I thought it should always be (don't make a change, and restore the original value the element had when it received focus).

-Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: Silverio, Gonzalo [mailto:gsilver at umich.edu] 
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 11:02 AM
To: Silverio, Gonzalo; Richwine, Brian L; Phil Kragnes; Mike Elledge; LUCIA GRECO
Cc: accessibility at collab.sakaiproject.org
Subject: Re: [WG: Accessibility] Accessibility] Opinion requested regarding the severity of an accessibility issue in Sakai 2x

Although, I notice in the comments section this quote from brothercake (
James Edwards):

"I have reservations about the usability of this solution - it changes the
expected behavior of select-element navigation. Potentially it could confuse
as many people as it helps.

But browsers already have a way of dealing with this, so a scripted solution
isn't really necessary. If you Tab to a select element and then press "ALT +
arrow key" it opens the menus and allows you to navigate with the arrow
keys, not firing the onchange until you press Enter - which is exactly the
desired solution in this case."

http://www.themaninblue.com/writing/perspective/2004/10/19/

    -Gonzalo

On 2/4/10 10:41 AM, "Gonzalo Silverio" <gsilver at umich.edu> wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> Many thanks for the great input.
> 
> Another example that may be worth looking at:
> 
> http://www.themaninblue.com/experiment/AccessibleSelect/
> 
> It seems very comprehensive. The changes required to the code would be more
> extensive, but worth it if it meets the needs.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
>     -Gonzalo
> 
> 
> On 2/3/10 5:36 PM, "Richwine, Brian L" <brichwin at indiana.edu> wrote:
> 
>> Philip,
>> 
>> It works great with the keyboard, but I had difficulty getting it to work
>> with
>> my mouse in Firefox 3.5.7 on Windows 7. As soon as I click on the down arrow
>> or the body of the combo box, it changes pages on me.
>> 
>> -Brian
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: accessibility-bounces at collab.sakaiproject.org
>> [mailto:accessibility-bounces at collab.sakaiproject.org] On Behalf Of Phil
>> Kragnes
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 5:14 PM
>> To: 'Michael S Elledge'; 'LUCIA GRECO'
>> Cc: accessibility at collab.sakaiproject.org
>> Subject: Re: [WG: Accessibility] Accessibility] Opinion requested regarding
>> the severity of an accessibility issue in Sakai 2x
>> 
>> Attached is an acccessible dropdown example.  I do not know if there are any
>> browser conflicts.
>> 
>> Philip M Kragnes, MS
>> Computer Accommodations Program
>> University of Minnesota
>> McNamara Alumni Center
>> 200 Oak Street SE, Suite 180
>> Minneapolis, MN 55455-2002
>> Phone: (612) 626-0365
>> Fax: (612) 626-9654
>> http://cap.umn.edu
>> 
>> Consider being an organ donor!
>> More information http://www.fairviewtransplant.org
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: accessibility-bounces at collab.sakaiproject.org
>> [mailto:accessibility-bounces at collab.sakaiproject.org] On Behalf Of Michael S
>> Elledge
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 3:48 PM
>> To: LUCIA GRECO
>> Cc: accessibility at collab.sakaiproject.org
>> Subject: Re: [WG: Accessibility] Accessibility] Opinion requested regarding
>> the severity of an accessibility issue in Sakai 2x
>> 
>> Hi Everyone--
>> 
>> I would agree with Lucia's comment. The reason I flagged this as an issue is
>> that we have found screen reader users often don't know that the alt+down
>> arrow key combination is necessary to access drop down menus. Well-trained or
>> expert users will, but the average screen reader user may not, and will think
>> they are doing something wrong or that it is broken.
>> 
>> My two cents.
>> 
>> Mike
>> 
>> LUCIA GRECO wrote:
>>> Hello:
>>>  As a vary comment screen reader user and a trainer of students. I
>>> think
>> the
>>> stamen that people know how to use alt down arrow is pure insanity.
>> Remember
>>> that most people are captured in the first 30 seconds. So the first
>>> time they hit this it is over they don't want to use the tool ever
>>> again and
>> will
>>> not even know how to go back or fix or even care about what went wrong.
>> Most
>>> users don't know to use that key combo. And if you're a keyboard only
>>> user with say a single key entry. I-E a mouth stick now it's more work
>>> again.
>>> Lastly there is no reason to justify bad coding it should be a on
>>> select
>> and
>>> not on change. This goes beyond critical in to show stopper
>>> 
>>> Lucia Greco
>>> University of California, Berkeley Disabled Students' Program
>>> Assistive Technologies Specialist http://attlc.berkeley.edu
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: accessibility-bounces at collab.sakaiproject.org
>>> [mailto:accessibility-bounces at collab.sakaiproject.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Mary Stores
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 11:06 AM
>>> To: accessibility at collab.sakaiproject.org
>>> Subject: [WG: Accessibility] Opinion requested regarding the severity
>>> of
>> an
>>> accessibility issue in Sakai 2x
>>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> 
>>> We are beginning to address the outstanding Jira accessibility issues
>>> that Gonzalo sent, and we would appreciate your comments on our
>>> determination of the issue. Below is the issue and our comments.
>>> 
>>>  From Gonzalo's email:
>>> 1.    Select / onchange
>>> A <select /> is used for navigation with an onchage handler that
>>> triggers
>> a
>>> form submit [IE 6 and 7]. Keyboard  selection of options becomes
>>> impossible. Example:
>>> http://jira.sakaiproject.org/browse/SAK-12820
>>> 
>>> We believe this issue is not a critical issue as listed because users
>>> of adaptive technology should be familiar with this issue and aware of
>>> the "Alt+Down Arrow" key combination. Also, in the "Navigation Tips
>>> and Tricks" section of the Sakai Help system, the first entry
>>> describes how to navigate combo boxes using alt+Down Arrow to open the
>>> combo box and the up- and down-arrow keys to scroll through the
>>> options without selecting anything.
>>> 
>>> The proposed solution of adding screen reader only text stating
>>> something like "Use ALT + arrow keys to select a choice. Then hit
>>> Enter" before each combo box (<select> element) would likely annoy
>>> screen reader users, as they would be forced to hear it each time they
>>> navigated the page.
>>> 
>>> It seems to be an issue of where to draw the line on the skill level
>>> expected of users in using their web browsing tools.
>>> 
>>> Another discussion of the onchange event accessibility issue can be
>>> found here:
>>> http://cita.disability.uiuc.edu/html-best-practices/auto/onchange.php.
>>> This page introduces another possible solution of adding a button that
>>> must be activated before changes in the combo box take effect. This
>>> would be a more time consuming fix and possibly create usability issues.
>>> 
>>> Your input as to whether this accessibility issue should remain
>>> critical or be changed to minor, and towards possible solutions is
>>> appreciated.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Mary Stores and Brian Richwine
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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